I think part of the problem may be that people want to see the Elder Gods as manifestations of aspects of life/nature/death/taint/whatever. They are not. We specifically strived to steer away from how other realms may represent gods (God of Death, God of Life, Goddess of Nature, etc.) in order to give more uniqueness, flexibility and mystery. Thus, if Shikari calls himself the Predator, it does mean he represents the aspect of hunting/predation in nature. The gods do not have 'realms' and, though they may have inclinations to certain behaviors/ideologies, they do not have a monopoly on any one. Fain is not the God of Evil, Lisaera is not the Goddess of Moon/Nature, Viravain is not the Goddess of Tainted Forests, Lacostian is not the God of Knowledge, etc. For that matter, neither do player city/communes have monopolies on ideologies. Glomdoring, for example, could very well become ingrained with the cycles of nature--it is not Serenwilde's to own.

I don't really see the basis for this gripe. Just because Shikari is "the Predator" doesn't mean He is the ultimate be-all and end-all of predation. Gods in Lusternia don't have a realm but rather have unique personalities. So in truth, "Nokraenom, the Predator" has just as much of a claim as Shikari to hold ultimate power of how predators view the Taint (and nor do I imagine Shikari will try to make such a claim, or if He does, it is an individual belief). Don't get so hung up on the title: it's just that, a title.

Another example can be found in the other Second Circle Gods: Hajamin and Terentia. Both espouse the virtues of "honorable combat," yet we have seen Hajamin and Terentia both act in ways that an objective observer would consider dishonorable towards the Tainted races. We have seen the Ur'Guard espouse many of the same virtues of honorable combat, and the Celestian Gods deny that the Ur'Guard do so, while the Ur'Guard often deny the same of the Gods. The Elder Gods can lie, cheat, and spread propaganda just as much as the rest of us. That's a point that I think people often overlook when considering how Lusternian Gods vary from other IRE Gods who have a specific realm (such as Goddess of Chaos, God of War, etc.).

If you believe predation firmly belongs in the Serenwilde, that's great. It provides a continued basis for Gwylifar to remain in the Serenwilde. The fact that you feel a slight disappointment about Shikari means only that your beliefs and values are being tested; it does not mean they are wrong or unfounded.

Nokraenom got .

Nokraenom's was more fleshed out

Estarra doesn't need to be fleshed out.

Then again, neither does Nokraenom's. Har.

Nokraenom. Nayl. You two shall be my right-hand man/chica. We shall hijack threads with ninja cookies. What?

EDIT: I'll make this worth-while. I'm glad Estarra or whomever cleared some things up for us in the events post - it explained things explained here, and a bit more clearly.

I don't think they were saying the same thing at all. I can see Estarra's point, but I'm not so much concerned that Shiktari "claims" predation, so much as that in a world this size with as many gods as we're likely to have, we just won't see it anywhere else because we can't afford to have someone else also treat on it. So it's not that Glomdoring has it, that's fine; no reason they can't have predation as part of their ideology. It's that the realm can't afford to buy it twice, so if they get it, it's on a pragmatic level at the expense of everyone else.

I'm not sure what Nokraenom was addressing, because it didn't seem to me that his comments actually connected to mine, apart from that first sentence about personalities that did echo Estarra's, and which is similarly responded to.

In any case, I'll take my lumps and keep slogging uphill. Just wish the hill would stop getting bigger. (Speaking of which... hey Estarra, while we're on the subject, how's about my request to use my bardic IC? )

Nor do we have a god armed with the Akashic Records. Should we be jealous and angry?

Lisaera has regularly stated hunting is an intrinsic part of the balance of nature and should be encouraged if done properly, it's part of Her ideology and the ideology of the Serenguard and Serenwilde as a whole.

Many Gods and organisations share parts of ideologies, this is no different.

Lisaera:

Shikari:

Shikari. A weapons specialist. Sounds familiar to me.



(Okay, so I know Shikari means something to do with hunting, but I thought I'd have a giggle.)

I hope you don't take this wrong, but I haven't picked up on that hardly at all; and gods know I've been looking for it, frankly digging for it. I've even withdrawn my ideas of pushing it as part of Serenguard ideology just because I got the feeling it was really just me.

If you don't think my response was relevant to your post, then I think your point came across poorly, because I responded to what I perceived as a commentary about Shikari "claiming" predation to the exclusion of all other Gods, and thus to the exclusion of Serenwilde (and the cities). If that isn't your point, could you elaborate further on what you're trying to say? I'm apparently just missing it.

Predation is a naturally occuring act: it occurs with all life. As Gods in Lusternia do not have realms (in the traditional sense), but rather are unique personalities similar to mortals, I don't understand how this damages the "realm of predation."

Look at it this way: Shikari is person who plays a role just like you, me, and all of these people:

Folken, Alexi, Anumi, Aerynn, Thorgal, Kyair, Tyrad, Caron, Volt, Rhysus,
Laysus, Ilna, Jiriki, Etanru, Jelaludin, Galatae, Ysbail, Leef, Murukan, Solara
, Nyanco, Bobbins, Iraen, Gwylifar, Klia, Nyla, Nayl, Soll, Leilania, Rheanna,
Shiro, Amaru, Jadryga, Egon, Renzuken, Silimaur, Glawar, Karali, Fallon, Saddim
, Strom, Zitheris, Kurama, Nemora, Althus, Kelly, Clyte, Xenthos, Malicia,
Sporal, Jarnic, Cronnacht, Iasmos, Nokraenom.

(Well, maybe not Bobbins!)

Let's say that (hypothetically) Jadryga claims the "realm" of Knowledge for herself. Does this mean that the presence of knowledge in Celest is damaged? It's a slight possibility, but only if her views, beliefs, and claim on the "realm" of Knowledge are universally accepted (and more importantly, accepted in Celest). Otherwise, it's just Jadryga espousing her own philosophical views on what Knowledge is, and how people seeking Knowledge should act. It's a personal viewpoint, it's not an infallible perspective (such as Gods in other realms have).

If predation is important to you as a canon of Serenwilde, then Shikari's arrival does mean you are going to have to be more explicit and vocal in stating your beliefs of how predation has a place in the Wilde. If that is your point that I've been missing, then I apologize, but I still don't think you have a leg to stand on. For any belief to be valid you will have to gather a consensus and wide acceptance of it (or at least in the circle of the ruling elite, if you're only concerned with it as law and mandate, and not part of intrinsic culture). I don't see how the fact that Shikari is a predator, (not THE predator) is of any importance. By the accepted standards of predation as:

pre·da·tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (pr-dshn)
n.
1. The act or practice of plundering or marauding.
2. The capturing of prey as a means of maintaining life.

(Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition. Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.)

...then by the first definition, nearly everyone in Lusternia (including all of the Elder Gods) are predators. By the second definition, very few are real predators, and I would not consider Shikari to be a literal example of predation because he is an Immortal and does not use predation as a means of maintaining (His) life. I would consider him a predator in a more metaphorical sense, and one that does not damage the importance of predation to any Commune.

Shikari'll be okay as long as he fixed his message... *eye Shikari* you did didn't you?

The Soulless are just Elder Gods, but they predate the Elder Gods. Just.. not soul-filled. Mentioned somewhere. Mynara, I think, empowered them, instead of destroying them, and skipped merrily off to cause things to explode.

You mean MAGNORA? I don't think she so much empowered them, but. As the Soulless devour Elder Gods, they grow in strength. That is why Kethuru is the strongest - he absorbed the essence of more Elders than any others. I imagine if an Elder God like Shikari ran around killing Elder Gods and absorbing their essence, he would indeed become quite powerful.

Why in Kethuru's name would any Elder kill and absorb other Elders? I'm not even sure they *can* absorb other Elders for that matter. I've never actually seen one *TRY* though.