Karma: Why?

There is a serious problem with karmic curses. They were intended to be for smaller people, to prevent them being mercilessly killed by trigger-happy big players. What's happening is that fighters are using them every time they lose a fight.

Because I'm writing this, and because I have a good understanding of it, I'll use myself as an example. It's a fact of Lusternian life that people are going to die, and I am going to get victims. But when that 'victim' happens to be, for example, Thorgal, who has just been inside the Celestian village of Southgard as a Nihilist and let me chase him outside, then died... it makes no sense.

Because I take a lot of the weight of Celest's combat on myself, which is due to necessity, I am inevitably going to have a long victims list. So when Alger comes along and karmic curses 5 people while a village revolts, I'm not too happy. He used 5 karma, and it took me 100 karma to remove. And Alger is a powerful fighter, so why is this the case? This is only an example, it happens all the time.

Strategic karmic cursing. I can only think of once (out of 30+ times) that I was justly karmic cursed by a smaller player. The rest has been fighters 'getting their own back' or trying to put me out of action so they can take a village.

Estarra said we shouldn't judge karmic curses as they were being introduced. Now we've given it time, and it seems to me that the original Avenger system in itself is absolutely satisfactory.

In addition to that, the entirely needless karmic blessings system, which seems to have only existed to counter bad feelings on the curse system, is helping people to get Titan more quickly than they should be, considering the effect of Titans/Demigods on Lusternia's overall balance.

I know the team is all busy on new projects, but can we please fix old problems before we make new ones?

I agree.

I can see Erion posting - no thanks Erion.

See, Amaru, my problem is this - if you have enough suspects that we're talking 5 karma to curse... You're their main fighter. I know. But the system is set up so if you're defending, no suspect. If you kill someone in enemy territory who attacked you first, no suspect. Hell, if someone attacks you off-plane and runs to prime, and you hurry, kill 'em, no suspect. But, when you attack Thorgal in Southgard, he runs out, you chase and kill.. You probably deserve the suspect. If he'd attacked you first, you'ld have been fine. But, once he's out, he's safe.

As to fighters using it, take a hint from Shikari - win. No matter how you do it, win.

Love you too, Amaru.

Well I apologise for roleplaying Erion, but in case you didn't notice, I'm trying to build an empire here. I might have to go on the offensive, sometimes?

The point is, I'm not killing kids. I'm killing fighters who fight back.

The avenger system is all Lusternia needs.

umm well first i did not karmic curse 5 people. Second I usually kick people of my bullies list if i think its fair but this group of 12 celest/serenwilders decided to pull me out of rockholm so they could kill me... now i dont think thats fair since we get scolded for pulling off stunts like that. Plus I was told by the moondancers that, admin has specifically told them such pooka commands should not be used. Yes not too happy.

Well that being said, I never really liked the karma system, mainly the blessings.

I'm not knocking your roleplay. It's a very valid one, and I'm a fan of it. I'm glad SOMEONE from Celest is giving a damn. But at the same time, as you obviously know, not everything will be roses and chocolate. You're right - I think it's pretty low for someone whom loses in a fight to turn around and curse you. But, when you chase someone out of territory, and kill them, it's pretty black and white. I'm not saying DON'T DO IT, I'm just saying, you know what happens when you do.

Honestly, I think they should set it up so if you're declared while in enemy territory, by someone in same territory, you should be killable w/out getting suspect.

And I think we should return to the old days of pure avenger.

No one complained.

It was a perfect system which brought people to Lusternia, and then for some reason karma was 'fixing the problem' which never even existed.

It would also allow for the old abilities such as:

Trample
Contagion
Ectoplasm
Demesnes

to work properly, as they were intended, without the declare problems. Lusternia was beautiful at the beginning, that's why it drew so many players from elsewhere.

People loved the ruggedness, the openness of the PK and abilities at the start. That shouldn't be replaced by a PK flag system Aardwolf would be proud of, which we currently seem to have.

A great example of the failure of karma is happening right now.

Marcalo killed Danubis, a smaller player. It makes sense that she should be able to karmic curse him for this, and so get her revenge. Right?

Wrong. She'd be better off keeping her suspect, because once she curses him, he's going to kill her again. In the meantime, Magnagora's astral bashers will give him corpses for the karma, and he'll just burn off the curse. So it lulls small players into a false sense of security, or strength, which is quickly dismissed when they're killed.

How pointless. Old avenger system please!

Oh, the saga continues. Danubis karmic curses Marcalo. This ensues:


3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
Sparkling motes of bright light surround the Pool of Stars.
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
Danubis stands up and stretches her arms out wide.
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
Danubis hugs herself compassionately.
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
Danubis blinks.
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
Danubis gives up a round of applause.
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
Danubis hugs herself compassionately.
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
Danubis leaps into the air and launches a flying kick at Meleris, Keeper of the
Pool of Stars.
Danubis connects.
Meleris, Keeper of the Pool of Stars begins to yell for help.
(Celest): Meleris, Keeper of the Pool of Stars says, "Someone help me! Please!"
A greater elemental of water springs to Meleris, Keeper of the Pool of Stars's
defence.
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
Danubis's eyes droop and she yawns mightily.
Danubis's eyes close suddenly as she falls asleep.
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
Meleris, Keeper of the Pool of Stars points at Danubis and demands she atone
for her sins. She grimaces as a flash of light shines forth on her forehead.
Danubis wakes up with a gasp of pain.
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^ Target: danubis ^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
u
On the upper deck of the Pool of Stars.
This location is flooded with shallow, crystal clear water. The stars twinkle
in the clear night sky. Breaking through the dimensions, a planar rift slashes
through the air here. A statue of Cuber stands here, memorializing his noble
spirit. There are 21 archon of Eternal Lights here. Dream Sage Rhysus Saros is
here. He wields a coral staff in his left hand and a glowing powerstone in his
right.
You see exits leading north, northeast, southeast, southwest, northwest, down
(open door), and in.
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-n
The Tabernacle of Elohora.
The stars twinkle in the clear night sky. A symbol of Elohora hangs on the
wall. There are 13539 supplicants worshipping here, surrounded by a protective
glow. A statue of Elohora stands here, memorializing her noble spirit.
You see a single exit leading south.
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
(Celest): Aesyra says, "Who?"
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
(Market): Kaervas says, "Looking for an alchemist."
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-s
On the upper deck of the Pool of Stars.
This location is flooded with shallow, crystal clear water. The stars twinkle
in the clear night sky. Breaking through the dimensions, a planar rift slashes
through the air here. A statue of Cuber stands here, memorializing his noble
spirit. There are 21 archon of Eternal Lights here. Dream Sage Rhysus Saros is
here. He wields a coral staff in his left hand and a glowing powerstone in his
right.
You see exits leading north, northeast, southeast, southwest, northwest, down
(open door), and in.
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-in
portal enter eternite
portal exit
The Portals of Celest.
This location is flooded with shallow, crystal clear water. An obsidian eye
sigil is here.
You see a single exit leading out.
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
You portal to Eternite.
Les Tentations De Du'Vantae.
A painting of Charis is proudly exhibited on a nearby wall. A sigil in the
shape of a small, rectangular monolith is on the ground. You see a sign here
instructing you that WARES is the command to see what is for sale.
You see exits leading north (closed door), south (closed door), and down
(closed door).
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
You portal to the Aetherplex Chamber.
The Aetherplex Chamber.
Superimposed over this location, an ethereal forest reaches up to the sky.
You see exits leading north (open door) and out.
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-rescue danubis
You briefly touch the Holy Orb of Celestial Light and concentrate on Danubis.
Power surges through you as your spirit is flung out to switch places with your
guild mate in a heroic rescue attempt.
The Pool of Stars.
This location is flooded with shallow, crystal clear water. The stars twinkle
in the clear night sky. An enormously wide circular pool, as dark as the night
sky, glitters softly between the columns. His form suffused with soft light,
the Keeper of the Pool of Stars stands here attentively. A statue of Isune
stands here, memorializing Her noble spirit. An obsidian eye sigil is here. A
sigil in the shape of a small, rectangular monolith is on the ground. Squire
Mitcawelo, of the Armies of Light is here. He wields a sable assault fencing
rapier in each hand. Shadria, Child of Light is here. She wields a glowing
powerstone in her left hand. Artist Extraordinaire, Solvanis Krynn, Guardian of
Truth is here, shrouded. He wields a silver jeweler's hammer in his left hand
and a golden paintbrush in his right. Dream Sage Rhysus Saros is here. He
wields a coral staff in his left hand and a glowing powerstone in his right.
You see exits leading north, northeast, east, southeast, south, southwest,
west, northwest, and up (open door).
3704h, 3404m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
Rhysus peers about himself unscrupulously.
3704h, 3479m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
Sparkling motes of bright light surround the Pool of Stars.
3704h, 3479m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-evoke chockmah
Muttering the secret names of Chockmah, you trace complex glowing symbols
before you. As the symbols fade away, the area around you seems to become
clearer and more defined, revealing all that is hidden.
3704h, 3374m, 3260e, 10p xkdb-
Bleeding wounds open up on your body, as your soul surges with holy power.
3539h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p xkdb-
You have recovered equilibrium.
3539h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
You bleed 5 health.
3699h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-qw
Jitwix, Kyair, Renzuken, Nokraenom, Xiphoid, Nessa, Mitcawelo, Diamante, Nayl,
Caducus, Sivriel, Jadryga, Shadria, Skyla, Solvanis, Tenqual, Kaervas, Akuro,
Murphy, Tsuki, Tenat, Ozric, Sobran, Endomar, Nyla, Eiru, Larskak, Zhaendche,
Alamander, Razyx, Chade, Rhysus, Myndaen, Shayle, Kujo, Barrin, Kohir, Taliesin
, Aculeus, Alger, Danubis, Amaru.
3699h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-say razyx, I bet
You say, "Razyx, I bet."
3699h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
Rhysus leaves to the east.
3699h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
Rhysus arrives from the east.
3699h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
Rhysus nods his head emphatically.
3699h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
Rhysus leaves to the east.
3699h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
Rhysus arrives from the east.
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
Rhysus leaves to the west.
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
Rhysus arrives from the west.
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-ct razyx
(Celest): You say, "Razyx."
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-ct made Danubis kick Meleris
(Celest): You say, "Made Danubis kick Meleris."
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
"Grrrrrr," Aesyra says.
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
(Celest): Aesyra says, "..."
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-ct in a dreambody
(Celest): You say, "In a dreambody."
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
Rhysus stares into his cupped hands.
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
(Celest): Shadria says, "Why are they picking on Danubis?"
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^ Target: razyx ^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
abjure window razyx
You open up a window in the cosmic fabric and search out Razyx. Through the
cosmic window, you see Razyx at centre of the Necropolis.
3704h, 3684m, 3260e, 10p xkdb-
You have recovered equilibrium.
3704h, 3684m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
(Celest): Rhysus says, "It's Razyx."
3704h, 3684m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-ct because she cursed one of them
(Celest): You say, "Because she cursed one of them."
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
The eyes of Aesyra go briefly out of focus.
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-order 51988 follow me
order 77091 follow me
order handmaiden follow me
You cannot see that being here.
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
I do not recognize anything called that here.
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
I do not recognize anything called that here.
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-touch orb
You clasp the Holy Orb of Celestial Light and feel power surge through you. A
shimmering gateway ripples into being, out of which emerges the Handmaiden of
Shakiniel.
3704h, 3404m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-starcall companion
ih
The breathy song of an angelic choir fills the air, as a beam of white light
descends from the heavens upon which travels a celestial archangel who bows to
you in answer to your call.
3704h, 3324m, 3260e, 10p xkdb-
"pool2336" the Pool of Stars
"meleris9624" Meleris, Keeper of the Pool of Stars
"statue18778" a statue of Isune
"sigil69622" an eye sigil
"monolith sigil100760" a monolith sigil
"rat54893" a rat
"handmaiden3805" the Handmaiden of Shakiniel
"archangel51988" a celestial archangel
Number of objects: 8
3704h, 3324m, 3260e, 10p xkdb-
(Celest): Shadria says, "But only because they killed her first, right?"
3704h, 3324m, 3260e, 10p xkdb-
You have recovered equilibrium.
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-ct right
(Celest): You say, "Right."
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
You gag a bit as Aesyra's stink wafts over you.
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
Rhysus stares into his cupped hands.
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-order 51988 follow me
order 77091 follow me
order handmaiden follow me
A celestial archangel obediently falls into line behind you.
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
Ahh, I am truly sorry, but I do not see anyone by that name here.
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
The Handmaiden of Shakiniel obediently falls into line behind you.
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-whistle mount
You put your fingers in your mouth and let out a high-pitched whistle, then
hope for the best.
A magnificent unicorn trots in with head high.
ih
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p xkdb-
"pool2336" the Pool of Stars
"meleris9624" Meleris, Keeper of the Pool of Stars
"statue18778" a statue of Isune
"sigil69622" an eye sigil
"monolith sigil100760" a monolith sigil
"handmaiden3805" the Handmaiden of Shakiniel
"archangel51988" a celestial archangel
"unicorn77091" a magnificent unicorn
Number of objects: 8
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p xkdb-
The night sky is clear, and the stars twinkle like diamonds.
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p xkdb-
Rhysus stares into his cupped hands.
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p xkdb-
You have recovered equilibrium.
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-vault 77091
You easily vault onto the back of a magnificent unicorn.
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p ekdb-
You must regain balance first.
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p ekdb-
You have recovered balance on all limbs.
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-enemy razyx
Razyx is already an enemy.
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-abjure farscout enemies
You create a series of windows in the cosmic fabric and search out all your
enemies.
Through the cosmic windows, you see:
Kaervas - centre of the Necropolis
Razyx - centre of the Necropolis
Jadryga - the Sea of Despair
Nokraenom - chamber of the Heresiarch
Marcalo - centre of the Necropolis
Eiru - library of the Dark Fates
Alger - the Sea of Despair
Nyla - before a decorated tent
3704h, 3604m, 3260e, 10p xkdb-
(Celest): Aesyra says, "And Magnagora claims to have honour, what a joke."
3704h, 3604m, 3260e, 10p xkdb-
(Celest): Shadria says, "Are they really that stupid?"
3704h, 3679m, 3260e, 10p xkdb-
You have recovered equilibrium.
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
Aesyra slowly fades into view, returning to the realm of perception.
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-outd lust
fling lust at ground
You shuffle 1 card with the image of Lust out of your deck.
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
You have following people are lusted:
Xerith
Rafael
Rhysus
Malicia
Jalain
Tiberius
Ibaesha
Nevyn
Tsaephai
Alef
Kurama
Bakulao
Lazul
Stagar
Daganev
Cronnacht
Xavius
Laji
Sporal
Rawkhi
Lindhe
Athana
Klia
Thaddeus
Munsia
Meph
Luthe
Tandrin
Karala
Maelon
Amaru
Arix
Thalos
Kante
Steffan
Jairdan
Athalas
Vhri
Shorlen
Bastienne
Glissa
Noxuma
Courk
Ashteru
Thaemorn
Razlinn
Luxis
Wepaw
Ele
Tatiana
Akhiro
Ryllon
Umbrawn
Astraea
Mazeb
Siven
Shayle
3704h, 3654m, 3260e, 10p ekdb-
Aesyra mutters and traces a glowing circle before her. She steps through the
circle and suddenly vanishes from sight.
3704h, 3654m, 3260e, 10p ekdb-
Sparkling motes of bright light surround the Pool of Stars.
3704h, 3654m, 3260e, 10p ekdb-
You have recovered balance on all limbs.
3704h, 3654m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
Bleeding wounds open up on your body, as your soul surges with holy power.
3677h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
The air around Aesyra blurs as she chants under her breath. She shakes her head
and blinks in confusion.
3677h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
(Celest): Shadria says, "And selfish?"
3677h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb- chant fortuna
You are already reaping the gifts of Fortuna.
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-qw
Kyair, Renzuken, Nessa, Mitcawelo, Kaervas, Sobran, Aculeus, Skyla, Caducus,
Nokraenom, Solvanis, Kohir, Sivriel, Alger, Kujo, Razyx, Diamante, Eiru,
Myndaen, Ozric, Tenat, Endomar, Larskak, Chade, Zhaendche, Alamander, Jitwix,
Rhysus, Taliesin, Shadria, Jadryga, Akuro, Xiphoid, Barrin, Shayle, Danubis,
Nyla, Tsuki, Amaru.
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
You bleed 5 health.
3699h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
Aesyra takes a drink from a jade vial.
3699h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
Shadria leaves to the north.
3699h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
Danubis has been slain by the might of Dreadlord Murphy, Urlach's Fury.
You see the death occur at the Aetherplex Chamber.
3699h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-in
portal enter eternite
portal exit
There is no exit in that direction.
3699h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
You can't find an entrance to that here.
3699h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
You can't find an exit to there.
3699h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-Murphy? Don't forget to parry legs.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^ Target: murphy ^^^^^^^^^^
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
u
On the upper deck of the Pool of Stars.
This location is flooded with shallow, crystal clear water. The stars twinkle
in the clear night sky. Breaking through the dimensions, a planar rift slashes
through the air here. A statue of Cuber stands here, memorializing his noble
spirit. There are 21 archon of Eternal Lights here.
You see exits leading north, northeast, southeast, southwest, northwest, down
(open door), and in.
An archon of Eternal Light says, "May the Light shine with you, Amaru."
3699h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
3699h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-in
portal enter eternite
portal exit
The Portals of Celest.
This location is flooded with shallow, crystal clear water. An obsidian eye
sigil is here.
You see a single exit leading out.
3699h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-order 51988 kill murphy
order handmaiden kill murphy
You portal to Eternite.
Les Tentations De Du'Vantae.
A painting of Charis is proudly exhibited on a nearby wall. A sigil in the
shape of a small, rectangular monolith is on the ground. You see a sign here
instructing you that WARES is the command to see what is for sale.
You see exits leading north (closed door), south (closed door), and down
(closed door).
3699h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
You portal to the Aetherplex Chamber.
The Aetherplex Chamber.
Superimposed over this location, an ethereal forest reaches up to the sky. The
soul of Danubis roams the land, bodiless. Dreadlord Murphy, Urlach's Fury is
here. He wields Urlach's Fury in his left hand and Orclachmar's Wrath in his
right.
You see exits leading north (open door) and out.
3699h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
You order a celestial archangel to kill Murphy.
3699h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
You order the Handmaiden of Shakiniel to kill Murphy.
3699h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-softchant
starchant heretic murphy
softchant
starchant heretic murphy
You chant rhythmically under your breath.
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
Declared.
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
You chant rhythmically under your breath.
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
Declared.
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
Murphy quickly devours the corpse of Danubis.
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-softchant
starchant heretic murphy
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-softchant
starchant heretic murphy
You chant rhythmically under your breath.
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-
A cone of sparkling light rises up around Murphy and whisks him away.
3704h, 3704m, 3260e, 10p exkdb-


Does anyone really think this is a fair or effective system?

Look at the evidence.

Of course, he didn't come back and kill her, Razyx just decided to possess her and have her kick Meleris. What a cock. In all the times I've possessed Magnagorans I've never once used it for something like that. Talk about griefing. Karma simply doesn't work as its intended to, because people know HOW it works and, as such, can figure out how it can be used entirely to their advantage with minimal disadvantages.

I just wish someone had foreseen this problem...

http://lusternia.ire-community.com/index.p...pic=1726&st=80#
Post 86, Feb. 4, 2005.


Edit:

I'd have to agree.

Cursing a Magnagoran is COMPLETELY pointless, because they will have dozens of people get them the karma. And I know Alger cursed -at least- 3 people. Alger is not someone who needs the protection, but, he still uses it. When Murphy and Ixion come kill me, what can I do? Nothing. I'm better off keeping my suspect so he can't come after me again, since my karmic curse would be burned off by OTHER PEOPLE essentially.

The system is completey and utterly useless from what i've seen. I'm not even a fighter, i'm usually the one dying, and I would still rather see it go back to just plain Avenger, especially now that the group-combat bug is no more, and you get status on everyone involved.

Agreed Jairdan, and it isn't just Magnagora. I ask people for corpses if I'm karmic cursed, as well.

The entire system is unnecessary.

Well, Magnagora is usually the one going out of their way to get the Suspect in the first place, and from what I've seen, people you kill usually have it coming, so, I really don't see as big a problem with that, because you shouldn't be getting cursed to begin with.

Right now, as I write this, Danubis was trapped, blocked and monolithed into the Cave of Harmony. She had grace, so wasn't killed. I managed to rescue her, dodging a team of 6 Magnagorans, only to see her die to Meleris after Razyx dreamweaved her to kick him. Razyx can do this as much as he want, because he doesn't get suspect for the kill. All this because of the declare and karma systems.

Ok, that is just up. Yes, go ahead and censor it, Shiri, but that's what it is.

EDIT: ~Shiri~

I'd tell Danubis to issue Razyx for griefing. That's pretty low. But I tend to be mean like that.

I dont think she was monolithed, but yes the karma system is a joke

actually the back story behind the danubis thing is this, she shouted something about me after a raid, so i waited till i saw a chance to kill her, did so, she went to curse me, i told her look you curse me i will kill you again for cursing, she did, and every death since has been because of that. i tried to reason with her, i told her i didn't want to hunt her anymore and told her look kick me, and i will go about my merry way and not bother you again, she cussed me out and basicly said no. so she brought any death from me onto herself.

and yes karma curse'ing is about useless down with karma period!