Marcalo take some responsibility dude .

i never said she SHOULDN'T curse me, i am just saying she was warned what would happen if she did, so she took the gamble and it came up wrong for her.

oh, and this rule of mine has been in place for anyone who's ever karma cursed me so don't think i just made it up cause of her.

There ought to be a mechanism somehow by which getting someone else to get karma for you causes both of you to lose all your karma. By the definition of karma, even. More than any other single point, the "hey, go bash for me while I murder people so I can get off scot free" thing is what renders all the possibilities of karma moot.

I feel stupid for not seeing it because I was for the karma benefit of offering in the first place, having not thought of the idea that people would hire people to sell them corpses for it. I don't know how I missed that.

The fact that dreamweaving forcing people to kill themselves doesn't count as a kill is another glaring loophole. People who exploit such loopholes should be punished administratively as bug abusers until the loopholes can be closed.

It's pretty obvious what the intent of Avenger and karma are. It's pretty obvious that when you circumvent that intent, you're not being "clever", you're just getting away with cheating. If you have the mental acuity to be able to come up with these techniques and at the same time to be able to blind yourself to them, you have no place being entrusted with roleplaying, let alone attacks.

Sorry if I am going to de-rail the current back and forth on the thread, but I have a question/complaint about karma. It -could- be that I just don't get it, or misread the help files, if that is the case don't abuse me! *g*

I reached 100% karma, and got the blessing of knowledge. This left me with 50% karma and shortly after I gained at least 10 to 20 percent more. Anyway, after the next few times logging in without much change to my karma I kept getting messages saying something like, "your karma fails to keep up the blessing rah rah" so I don't think I ever actually received the benefit of the blessing, and I wasn't sure what level of karma I should have gained back to have seen the benefit of the blessing. Can anyone politely explain this to me? I'll read the help files -again- just to be sure of course, but...durh help me.

Edited to add- Also, the blessing wore off IG last night, I still saw no change in stats and skills or wherever the blessing of knowledge goes, hence why I think I never actually had the benefit of having spent the karma.

Okay. You get 100% karma. You get a blessing of Knowledge. You now have +2 int until it wears off. For every hour you have a blessing, it costs 1% to keep it. For every hour you have 2 blessings, each blessing's upkeep is 2% (I think). And so on. As long as you did not fall to 0% karma, you maintained the blessing.

Oh, and time with the blessing is counted through online time only.

That's just it though, I didn't ever get the 2+ int. I thought I must have been doing something wrong, so I didn't bug it or anything. I guess I should have?

You should have - although I've never heard of anything like this. It won't appear on your DEF, but if you do KARMA, it should be listed. And STATUS should reflect the +2 int.

I don't think I looked at KARMA but I definitely looked at status to be sure.

Shoulda bugged it, then.

/hijack.

Yea, sorry about that Amaru.

Curses should be looked at - I dislike the idea of it being used as a weapon. At the same time, it's Amaru's own fault. As a character, not as a player. But, the way people act over, especially over novices/newbies, is pretty sad.

You left out the part where she bad-mouthed Mag citizens on shouts, making a tense situation even worse. She would've been left alone, by me at least, had she not gone that far.

Thanks, Marcalo, for exactly proving the point I made on another thread as people viewing cursing and so forth as mechanical obstacles towards killing people rather than an alternative to DIRECT divine intervention. If every time Danubis had karma cursed you Hajamin had gotten a message to go and reduce your experience gain, and it went on a permanent track record, you might react differently.

Actually, that's a thought. Track records. This 30 day stuff doesn't cut it when people are actually removed from the list for cursing (and how many people think far enough ahead to stay on someone's karma list so FURTHER curses cause difficulties in the future? Not many, I'll wager.)

Then do something intelligent, instead of making her kick Meleris. That's just griefing.

I bugged it last night and asked that dreamweavers get suspect like they're supposed to.

And on topic, I agree with you Amaru (hard to believe I'm actually typing those words, but for a change you're on target )...the karma system is a complete and utter failure. It seems to me it causes many more imbalances and problems than it solves...and actually I don't think it really solves anything. I think the Avenger system itself is a good idea, and works well (except I still can't stand the peacing due to vengence, but to me it's the lesser of the two evils).

Honestly, I don't see how doing it once to a person is griefing. If I did it repeatedly, harssed them, etc...then that would be griefing (anyone else thinking Narsrim or Munsia? ). I also wouldn't do it if more than 15-20 min had passed after the reasoning for it; ie when I log on someone tells me they want me to do it because person X killed them 5 hours ago...I say they're nuts and there's no call for it.

Another thing, you're all assuming Razyx did this 100% on his own accord. Razyx was told to do this by a much larger and higher ranked citizen than himself...so in a sense he was following orders. Granted, he was already thinking about it, but the order pushed him over.

Is Razyx slighting off kilter? Yes. Is Razyx dedicated to his city/guild to the point of obsession? Yes. Is Razyx a griefer...I don't think so.

Forget kicking Meleris, that's not what this is about. Karma is unnecessary, and I'm not a vocal minority!

Yeah, I must say that the system isn't working out too well...It gets to a point where karmic cursing someone is just not worth it since they can easily get people to bash up corpses for them, not to mention by that time they are even more angry at you and it tends to end in another death for me . So I've just gotten use to ignoring my suspect list and keeping karma for blessings instead.

And keeping karma for blessings means... the actual point of the system, is not being used. Like Sarapis recognised landmarking, let's recognise karma as something which needs to go.

Yeah, it needs to go. The divines had good intentions, but the karma system only made the strong stronger and the weak weaker. I really liked the primebond idea.

EDIT: Explanation of the primebond: you go to your nexus, and primebond for 2 power. That would be the first skill in Planar. As long as you have primebond, you can't be attacked by other players - aggresive actions toward you cause the primebond to disappear instead, but not immediately, rather after 2 minutes or something like that, to let you escape. Works only on Prime.