Nifty! What about inept combat? Adept combat? master combat? Virtuous combat? Mythical combat? Because not everyone can transcend combat!

And it's your own choice if you choose to keep hitting their stance. Since you like, don't -ever- miss if you're not hitting at the stance and parry, if you miss a whole combo you can just change areas. Or hey, just lunge through 'em.

.. and you can now hit back almost instantly! Whats the penalty of missing again?

Morik: Is it logical to use sample populations from such pools? Should we really balance based on people who havent transed combat or dont even use the skill properly? If you want to balance without taking trans combat skill into consideration i dont think itll get far because it is a factor and something that you cant ignore unless you take the whole skill out of the game.

shiri:

To kill most people i have to hit certain limbs to come up with certain combinations. I dont just strike randomly on any body part, its just not as simple as that. Also thats why you switch stancing and parry different areas. I do these manually and I honestly dont find it hard (maybe though because i generally know what knights go after). Also when fighting as a knight, most of my openers have to do with combos that go against balance. This means i have to get my next string off before you cure the previous, which also means if I miss thats less pressure for you and more pressure for me. If i miss one too many then everything i was working for gets reset.

Now I may not accurately say the same is true for damage warriors since I'm not one, but it certainly seems like it. I fight Murphy, Daevos or Icarus and even though they're dealing a huge amount of damage if they miss 3-4 times in a row, back to 0.

Why is it that the discussion is always made with out the inclusion of Lunge or Crush in the mix? You can be excellent with stancing, parrying, and the use of rebounding, yet a Lunge or Crush will pretty much negate all of that. Since the cost of it is only 2 power, a warrior can lunge or crush pretty much as frequently as I double sling runes. Anyone who fights me knows that I double sling runes quite frequently. Therefore, many of the suggestions being thrown around by some warriors on this board are a bit disingenuous at best.

I'm more concerned about wounding than damage. It -is- strong and until we hear word from Roark, let's assume that he's still working on it. There will probably be an announce here in forums or IG.

Alger, didn't you admit that wounding was a bit strong and to balance it out, give everyone puer? Heh. I want puer! I can't keep up with the deepwounds I get and damage at the same time. I do realize that this is hardly a logical option. It's similar to insane thoughts/ideas such as 'Hey, I'd like to not lose experience when I die, so to appease me and offer balance, give everyone lich.' Sounds reasonable eh?

No.

So, we wait for the wounding changes! I doubt that it'll be left as is. As often as we are all prone to bias, I shouldn't be able to impale/rend Torak in two moves. Personally, I wouldn't mind seeing it all changed back to how it was before.

I don't want to get too deep into all this because frankly it makes my head spin and I've gone past caring -- much more important things need addressing than this nowadays to me. But I do want to make one point.

For a long long time, warriors, most notably blademasters, were horribly underpowered compared to everyone else, with no hope in sight of correction coming soon. Some faded out. Some turned to other pursuits. Some stuck it out. And some, a disproportionate number compared to other archetypes, buffed themselves up with gobs of credits, and spent hours and hours at the forge, trying to make up the gap.

Now that things are rebalanced somewhat (I'm not saying perfectly, I'm just saying, compared to before), there's an apparent imbalance arising for those people (and I admit I'm sort of one of them, though by no means a top one). But we have to account for that. If blademasters had never been nerfherders in the first place, but had been about even with everyone, and then a few of us credit-buffed up and became comparatively overpowered, no one would blink. But since more of us did, because we had to at the time, we see a problem that maybe isn't there.

There is certainly still adjusting needed. I've been advocating recalibration of damage for ages, and wounding might be out of whack. But do remember to account for this historical side-effect when you're considering the balance. Folks that paid for that stuff expect to get what they paid for, too.

All of what you said would have had more weight if it were all true. Terenas does not have artifact-enhanced rapiers. I do not think he has any artifacts at all. Add in the fact that he is also a weak non-specialized merian. Yet, with two lunges he brought my chest from 100 down to 70. So in one combo my chest was placed into the critical range, and I was given the punctured lung affliction. So please do not try to convince people that there is some misperception on their part about wounding being out of whack.

There are very few things more important in Lusternia right now than the balancing of the wounding system. Any person who would try to suggest otherwise is just trying to hold on to an unfair advantage the present system gives him or her.

Geb, we're doing it again. I never said "this factor explains everything" -- in fact, several times I made the point that it does not explain everything. Therefore, saying "this factor does not explain everything" in no way means what I say is not true. There just aren't enough disclaimers in the world to get people to read what I'm actually saying, are there?

Here are my thoughts, overall.

Wounding by most knights against nonknights is crazy.
Wounding by some(arti/awesome weapon) knights against nonknights is absurd(crazy++)
Wounding by most knights against knights is mildly stupid(crazy--)
Wounding by some(arti/awesome weapon) knights against knights is crazy.

I do over thirty damage in a combo to nonknights, as a human with 17 str, 13 dex, and rapiers in the 220-area, precision wise.

Warriors are either hugely strong or hugely weak. They're hugely strong against anything that doesn't have large hp to tank(non-knights), and by and large not that great against stuff with large hp(knights!). There is a reason so many warriors absolutely loathe sparring other warriors, and it's not because the fights are fun.

What I don't understand, is that despite the high amounts of realism put into the warrior archetype, absurd changes like half balance recovery on misses, dodges and parries, and lunges going through rebounding...are being made.

In reality, if you swing at someone, and completely miss him, you're going to lose your balance at least double as long as when you would have hit, instead of half?!

If your strike would get parried, you'll often get stunned by the shock, depending on your opponent's strength, and be thrown off balance longer than with a hit as well.

If the nature of a rebounding aura stops physical weapons to penetrate, how on earth could a faster and stronger strike penetrate it? The nature of the weapon hasn't changed...

You could argue that balance > realism..but in these cases, the unrealistic changes increase the imbalance.

That's what I said. You'd be massively off balance for a miss.

Realistically? Do you think someone untrained in combat could dodge a sword coming at them by a blademaster? Or could you parry someone swinging a flail at you with a tower and not feel the shock from the absorption of the blow directly? Hell, if I'm swinging a 100 lb flail at you and you parry with a shield directly, your arm should be stinging, but does that happen in Lusternia? No.

Wounding against nonknight needs looking into, completely agree with. Recovering balance at normal when someone successfully parry or dodge is understandable as well. But given the level of inaccuracy knights are subjected to after the precision change, there should be at least something to let us compensate for that. As discussed before, I'm perfectly happy with knights recovering balance at normal rate after a successfuly dodge or parry, but still retain the recovering balance faster after a miss, especially since we are a lot more inaccurate than before.

That's simply not true.

Your hit rate is now 90-100% flat.

When every knight I've spoken to and myself included have experienced missing a lot more often than before with our weapons, I can safely assure you that we are a lot more inaccurate than before.

Your not missing more, other people are dodging more.

Test on non faelings with non trans combat

Astral creatures are also dodging more as well then?

They do have a rather annoying habit of dodging, it's true.

bleh, since some people can't seem to understand the accuracy changes here is a brief summary. Accuracy is now fixed. This means that those who were trans knighthood specialisation, but not yet trans combat have a higher accuracy rate, whilst those who were trans both blademaster/bonecrusher AND combat now have a lower accuracy rate. The dodging rate is all dependant on relative size.

Malicia, didnt i show you how to keep up with wounding? Hell at one point i had you and xenthos on me and still my wounds didnt go below 80. You also saw i didnt use puer once.

Also your comparison is hardly applicable. First of all i didnt recommend giving everybody puer exactly, i said puer like ability. Now you can compare this to having ressurection, lichdom and resurgem. Second this isnt a matter of a "oh, i like to do that too", I was thinking people will have difficulties so its somewhat like throwing them a bone. If you gave puer to someone like geb for example I'm pretty sure he'll figure out how to use it.

Also I can't believe you're saying you're having difficulties when you're wearing fullplate and I'm wearing an average set of fieldplate. Hell the difference in wounding that terenas does to me and geb is a wooping 4 points... yes 26 wounding from 2 lunges... so what? If he does 3 lunge combos to my head thats 78 wounds... thats not even 1/3 of the way to a sure behead. Thats not even slit throat stage, nor heartpierce stage, nor tendon stage, nor disembowel stage.

Geb: Lunge/crushing isnt included because you cant continously lunge or crush. After 2 1/2 combos the person has to stop, so its a short boost thats purpose is to by pass defenses. So if they get you pinned with 2 lunge combos(8p) all you have to do is writhe out stance parry fix up and they cant do it again for the next minute(7p per min if trans discipline?). Hell you dont even need to stance or parry, your demesne will just push them away and strip their waterwalk while you cure.

umm isnt double sling 2 power for one double sling? It's 2 power per lunge and you're comparing based on a 2 hit so thats 4p vs your 2p double sling.