Just so everyone understands where wounding stands... After opening precision, I quickly reduced its effectiveness quite a bit. After that I slowly lowered it to watch reactions. Right now it is about 45% effective of what it was when precision opened. The DEX bonus was also tweaked so that it doesn't make you do more wounding damage, but makes you more likely to induce a wound when you do strike. (Yes Daganev, I said that idea of yours would be massively hard, but that was because I was not thinking about it properly.) This makes DEX knights have a bonus for wounding without skewing wound healing.

It's been like this for quite a while. We have at times seen people complaining about running afoul bugs weeks after they were fixed, which indicates to me that sometimes people judge something based on their first experiences and do not stop to re-evaluate that experience on a regular basis, even after it has been changed more to that person's liking. It also makes it hard to tell if a player experience is real or based on what used to be. With all this in mind, does this change anyone's views on what wounding is doing?

After reading that it doesn't really seem like you answered our problem though. It seems at the moment that wounding is extremely unbalanced towards non-knights. With my 115 cutting fullplate I am taking around 13 wounding from 2 of Alger's lunges, but when I'm wearing an 83 cutting fieldplate, I'm taking up to 24 wounding.

Also, I'm doing 30 wounding with 2 lunges to Geb through greatrobes/tower and 26 through Alger's 83 cutting fieldplate with my 11 Dex and 190/221 precision rapiers. These numbers just seem way too high to be balanced.

I wasnt complaining

You have puer, you don't get rooms to complain!

give everybody something that heals deepwounds then!

Ah, since I'm tired, I didn't put what I wanted to here. Which is, unless you have top-notch armour you'll find a knight is able to get you down far far below what puer can help you with. A blademaster can have me ready for pinleg/impale in a few strikes, even when I'm curing limbs. Double impale/double rend is very very deadly and I wouldn't mind it this way if it weren't so damned easy for the really strong/dex races to actually pull it off.

Roark, would you be interested in opening up the test server again for people to test knights vs non-knights? I still don't like the wounding that knights are doing to me. I have to have 60+ greatrobes in order to begin to think about fighting blademasters. (Hm, do bonecrushers do just blunt damage? Because damn, that'd make my 60/30 robes like butter to them). Chainmail is almost worthless - 10 forges and I didn't get a stat higher than 45. Thats just not useful against your current breed of knights.

ooo you go warrior ill go guardian morik

these problems with Greatrobes and the like, did you test yesterday or 2 weeks ago?

Cause I'm only doing 6 wounding to post people.

In regards to Roark:

My problem with wounds is more evaluated on wound-afflictions and such than actual numbers because they are harder to track in a real combat setting.

However, I can clearly see some continuing problems. It is still possible for a great deal of persons to pin leg me in two lunges. Given that these are lunges, there is nothing I can do to stop them. I feel this is imbalanced given that in 2 (sometimes as many as 3 to 4) attacks, I'm being constantly pinned or impaled, bleeding damage is stacking from rend, and no matter how well I heal my wounds, I'm back to the same situation (that's assuming I heal my wounds completely with deepheal) two to three attacks later. In case where I do not use deepheal or for people who lack it, it is impossible to keep up with wounds. We are talking pin leg every 2 attacks, massive bleeding from rend and decent damage... at what point in that scenario do you stop to apply health and not die a round later?

You do realize your talking about lunges here? Attacks ment to give you an affliction on the FIRST hit, its costing them 8 power to pin your leg.

4 power for 30 wound damage, a possible 4 afflictions, and accompanying damage (All of which is unstoppable for the most part) is far superior to 2 easy to see and cure afflictions that are on a base balance recovery of 4 seconds. Even with the inclusion of illusions, the person has enough time to diagnose (very fast equilibrium recovery) and clear out all of the false afflictions.

Yes, runes are anywhere near as deadly as impale gut/rend combos or pinleg/rend combos (sarcasm). Since you only need to expend 1 or 2 combos to get to that point, you can do it with a total cost of only 4-8 power to near guarantee the death of most of the soft-targets in Lusternia. Hand me back my insta-kill bubble then. What was I thinking in feeling it was overpowered?

Excuse me? Lunge costs 2p per. It is costing 4p. Furthermore, the point of lunge is to provide an attack that cannot be blocked - not an attack that gives -heavy- level wound IMMEDIATELY. I realize you do not fight and as such, I do not expect you to see the gravity of this; however, it has be brought by many envoys including Terenas that being able to pin leg in two lunges is -far- too excessive.

I'm not saying that someone shouldn't be able to pierce a nerve, tear open an artery, etc. However, pin leg is far too nasty for a 1 combo ordeal. Furthermore, there are people who can pin leg in three to four normal attacks.

Syntax: CRUSH
Power: 2 (Any)
You will cause more deep wounds and increase your chance of specialty results with this targetted, crushing attack that bypasses defenses such as stances and rebounding. This counts as a jab.


I assume Lunge is the same.


Now are you talking Pin Leg or Pierce leg? Pierceleg is the same as Knockdown and Pin Leg is the same as getting a broken leg. Is the Skill pinleg broken or are bonecrushers also getting Brokenlegs in one combo?


Sorry, when you said 2 lunges I assumed you ment 2 combos of lunges as thats how people normally talk about Warrior attacks.

i WISH we could break legs with crushes, I really do.

So much more pain, I love keeping people prone

Heck, I wish I could get bloodynose and blackeye on a Crush like it says I'm suppose to.

Mmmmm if i could get those afflictions on a jab move....that would be sensational....

I could actually DO sacrifices, and on the flip side of that It'd also be overpowered doing blackout fracture skull concussion over and over on someone

I only did 4 wounding to Morik with his new greatrobes the other day, and although I was undef'd I don't have much else but a lucky fortuna to add to my dexterity and flex, which I can get up 15 str with geburah, but how much more would that be if its still so slow with 180+ precision rapiers, 12str, and 16 dex? Not very much at all, I'd think. In any case, quit yer whinning. Resilience and combat screws us up enough as it is.

Thorgal has owned me in the arena a few times by using hangedman and quickening with drain, although he had to mix in some aeon and other things to get the absolve in (take in mind he cant use most good sacraments kills on me). We're not unstoppable, you just have to think in battle. Get creative, not teary eye'd. We're not suppose to be tankable like everyone wants, get over it.

If you read the AB files, its suppose to be a jab move!

Narsrim, umm terenas told me 2 combos not 2 lunges.... Geb was talking about 2 combos too. Can you show a log of this happening in 2 lunges (1 combo)? Pardon me being skeptical, just that I've never seen it happen.

Geb, you were commenting on the frequency... thats why i stated how the power usage goes. Now you're commenting on the effectiveness... which wasnt the first point, but okay. Do you guys honestly die to one or two pinleg combos? I mean Daevos pinlegs me several times in one fight and I honestly dont think it means I'm going to lose right there. I can pinleg Eiru several times in a row and the bastard just clots the whole damn thing, not like he doesnt have the mana to do it. I can pinleg Icarus all the way to tendon stages and he doesnt die until i get the lock on. Is it that lethal? I mean i will admit pinleg is intimidating and would make me go uhoh but its far from the pinleg of the beta days.

I said most soft targets. Most soft targets will go down to that pinleg/rend combo. I am not included in the most soft-targets statement. Even though I do not die as easily as most soft-targets, I do take into consideration the survivability of most targets, and not just my own survivability.