On contrare, it is that something 'bad' that gives Serenwilde the motivation for its 'high moral duty'. The act of killing the fae (and this is something we started to abhor until forced otherwise) I don't believe is as detestable to an old communer as the enslavement, torture and corruption of their being. As I understand it, we are told they are spirits so destroying their physical forms isn't really killing them. Trapping and cconverting their essence into something they are not (and I would reference Unlife here if it wasn't going to cause a huge outcry) is a whole other kettle of fish.

As to justifying that view...

The difference, as seen from the Serenwilde side, is that Night enslaves the fae and forces them into service.

I always felt that since Queen Maeve could be easily swayed and willingly decided that it would be okay to send her subjects into slavery that it was her right to say so. Further more I think killing them from both sides, whether they are bound or not (since she knows they would be bound, and sort of put them in that situation) is an affront to her.



Just a thought though

Right, so that's my point. I've heard (and perhaps I've just misunderstood people) that the Serenwilde is absolutely, objectively in the right, because they are to protect fae, and that thus we Glomdoring folks are evil because we are murdering them.

If you're sworn to protect something, you should stop people trying to murder them. This is objectively the right thing to do. Were this the case, Serenwilde would, from my OOC perspective, be jusitified in their absolute sense of rightness.

But this was a misapprehension on my part. The Serenwilde doesn't actually care much if the fae are murdered, because they're immortal spirits. They just don't want them "bound into service" to Mother Night. This is more subjective. Apart from the description of being "bound in shadow", Mother Moon and Mother Night are both Great Spirits, both part of Queen Maeve, and arguably are both fine things for the fae to serve.

Thus, the conflict is much more subjective, which I like. You want things to be on your side due to your own personal/group philosophies, and for the power of your nexus. We want things to be on our side for similar reasons. No one is objectively "right" or "wrong". You might say, "It's wrong to enslave the fae in shadows". Maybe. Maybe it's wrong to bind them to the will of a Moon follower and it's just more subtle. Who's to say? Each side has its opinion.

Ah but behold the power of Serenwilde! We don't kill the shadow bound Fae, truly. We must subdue the shadows within them by damaging their corporeal shell (they are spirits of nature after all) and wash it in the Well of Souls. At this point, the true and pure spirit re-enters the shell and tada, it is alive again. For us, it is not murder. Think of it like this: To remove a tumor, you must cut through the skin. Simply because the skin is damaged does not make your efforts as a healer any less successful or noble. The skin will heal and the body as a whole will prosper with the tumor removed. The shadows, in this case, are "tumors" that are on the Fae.

Sure, there ya go. But see, the shadows are actual a vital part of the fae. After all, how can there be light without dark to balance it? As winter follows summer, so too does shadow follow light. The Well of Souls imbalances the fae by stripping this vital part of their being. Only by restoring this vital shadow by ...

Oh, blah blah. You get it. Point is, see there's an RP where either side can be right, and there's neither side that has to fight against being the objective wrong.

I don't think that one works, though, on the grounds that the Fae did perfectly well being unShadowed and unTainted for several millenia. I very much doubt that pre-Taint Shadowdancers bound the Fae in shadows, and as there's no historical recordings or modern-day evidence of the Fae being physically altered in any way (and certainly not an involuntary way) by being taken under Mother Moon's wing, it's definitely not a parallel you can try to highlight as a balance. The shadowed corruption is in no way a "vital part of their being."

Says you. As soon as Mother Night returned, Queen Maeve took very little time in taking on Night as part of her essence.

EDIT: But my main point here was that the conflict is more subjective, allowing for both sides to be "right" by their own point of view. This makes it a good conflict. As opposed to a conflict where one side has to cling to very sketchy justifications. That's all I'm saying.

And for this reason we can conclude that Maeve is somewhat Tainted. However, before the Taint there was no enslavement of the Fae. They existed naturally in Gloriana. Currently, no Fae will enter Glomdoring. They must be enslaved and dragged there.

Irrelevant. Fae can't lose their lives, as they are immortal spirits. Additionally, this history was written by a clearly biased journalist.

It is suspect, but hardly irrelevant. It must simply be taken in context.

No but they do feel pain and scream for mercy and stuff. Just because you aren't killing them finally doesn't mean it doesn't hurt!

Like putting the in a drug induced coma is any better...

Make a note that while all four groups have something to do with the fae, it's only Seren that gives them a cake, brings them to a 'safer' location, and says "go free"; the rest convert them, either binding them or converting them (to note, if Glom used cakes to lure fae to their side it wouldn't make a difference: they still get bound in shadows). To Seren's eyes, no other group is willing to just ask for permission for help and be happy at the answer, instead opting to change them in order to gain power.

Thus, they can all die for it instead.

Glom is targeted so violently because they are the ones currently attempting it. If Celest started running away with a few sprites in toe I'm pretty sure they'd be assaulted on sight just the same.

(I realized after I wrote this that it may be less the absolute view on Serenwilde, but more of how their teachings, and the actions they and Glom do seem to show, as viewed from Serenwilder Cwin. If Seren isn't like that, a little PR work might be needed at the IC level)

As for the shadow fae being killed to reconvert them, it's a brutal act but 'for the greater good'. If that's just 'the same thing as what Glom does' then I guess Seren can be pegged as hypocrites and I doubt they'd care much. The commune isn't a group of philosophers, or 'justics seekers', or even claim to be noble. They just know that a shadowed fae is a corrupted fae, and that left on it's own, it'll help corrupt more fae (by following Gloms, and bringing about more Daughters), until all of Faethorn is tainted, and that won't do.

Call it being naturalists. Call it heroism. Call it being discriminatory and facist. Call it being no better than the Soulless. Call it whatever you wish, but just know that it's Serenwilde's policy, root and core.

Cwin would shed a small tear if Glomdoring was slaughtered down to the man, but if it meant everyone become untainted just like the fae does then she'd dance and sing the rest of her days. If it meant their souls went away but a new, 'pure' commune would rebuild and the fae would be safe she'd cry over it, but only for an hour.

And if you read my history you would find out why...

Let me just say this... Untill Serenwilde decided that it would be easiest to kill Dark Fae, they said Killing of any fae for any reason was wrong. Now they change thier story.

Thats fine, but realize this is all PLAYER deceions, and has little to nothing to do with the game mechanics.

My point all along has been that people blaming gaming mechanics for RP choices are putting the blame in the wrong spot and are doing a diservice to everyone who might want to think about intersting RP twists.


If you really want to understand the evolution of the way Serenwilde acts you need to go back to the relationship between Lisarea and Fain.

Actually, the tainted fae event changed that policy. We had to kill them to return their spirits to their natural state. We weren't presented with an alternative in the mechanics.

The shadowed fae is an evolution of that. Give us a way to influence the fae out of their tainted bindings and disappear, and we would use it.

INFLUENCE POOKA WITH RAPTURE
You carefully approach the sickened form of a pooka bound in shadows and speak softly of the beauty of the living forests that he once served. You urge him to struggle against the foul magics that bind him and seek freedom.
A pooka bound in shadows gives a sudden shout of joy as the shadows around him are broken. A melodic rift opens and he disappears.

Can take more influence hits to 'kill' than damage hits.

The Glomdoring can have a similar action to 'kill' Serenwilde ents if they wish (INFLUENCE POOKA WITH SHADOWFEAR), though I don't think they have a problem with killing them in general, providing its the easiest route.

Ok, so some thoughts on Glomdoring.

Before I start, two matters of perspective. First - while I've read through this thread, there's a lot of it, so apologies if I miss/repeat previously made points. Second, my experience in online gaming is this: I played achaea for about three weeks. I then joined Lusternia, early on in the existance of Glomdoring. Hence, I have a liking for the commune - but, I hope, with some perspective. Oh - I've done a fair bit of face-to-face roleplay as well.

I'm going to number things, in case anyone wants to repond.

1) Elryn - I can see how you hate the shadow faelings, in terms of how its spoilt your roleplay. I think there are two sides to this. I reckon that shadow faelings give a really good opportunity for roleplay from natural faelings - the feelings of disgust, betrayal, the horror of what your kind can become has so much potential - IN character. A lot of your posts seem to take this view out of character. What I think is needed is not hatred or nerfing for the shadow faelings, but a way to make non-shadow faelings a popular race. My idea would be this - have two primary races per city/commune

e,g

Magnagora - Viscanti, Orclach
Serenwilde - Elfen, Faeling
Glomdoring - Elfen, Faeling
Celest - Merian, ?
Ackleberry - Tae'dae, Furrikin
Hallifax - Lucidian, Trill
Gaudiguch - Dracnari, ?

I think the game, and particularly ethereal/forest relations would be enriched by this.

2) The taint and nature. Nature, it must be assumed, is that which was created by the gods, as opposed to that which was created by man. The taint was created by a god - therefore while people might find it distasteful, it cannot be described as unnatural, or against nature. It is something which has influenced nature, in certain areas, but that is the nature of evolution. This position might be more defensible by Glomdoring than "Glomdoring is not tainted" - a full recognition that Gloriana was attacked by the taint, and that it has changed - forced evolution, if you like. It is not tainted, but it has been changed by the taint, as has every city/commune in the basin.

3) There needs to be some sort of change to the current ethereal situation. It should be POSSIBLE, however unlikely it seems at the moment, for Glomdoring and Serenwilde to be allied against the cities. With the current quest/war situation, I can't see that happening.

I think Anumi has a good point - it's tricky to justify murdering the fae with Glomdorings current RP. Our quests need to echo our beliefs to a greater extent.

4) It would be nice to see something coded (quests?) which encouraged a level of rural/urban conflict. There seems to be a lot of taint/non-taint and good/evil (note: not always the same) conflicts, but very little which encourages anything else. Something like this would discourage the obvious Celest/Serenwilde and Glomdoring/Magnagora alliances to some degree.

Just my unrequired and unwanted ha'penny worth.

Lumen

I don't think its spoilt my roleplay. Anyone can roleplay consistently in response to any change. Instead, it has spoilt my enjoyment because the forest race I picked for the fae-est (its a word from now on!) commune is suited more to another place, the specialization by which we are balanced is the polar opposite of the unspecialized form, and the progression from Faeling to imp is not something I find very logical.

I would be happy having two specializations for each city/commune. I just doubt it is going to happen. I would also be happy having the original advantage we were given over shadowfaelings, which was incredibly more logical and important than the one it was downgraded to.


The problem with the divine argument, though absolutely logical and correct, is that it must follow that the cities are therefore part of nature, as is everything. This makes the position of any commune in the mythos of Lusternia somewhat absurd.

'Taint is evolutionary' is a -fantastic- in-game way of playing a tainted communer.


Please no. Serenwilde should never be allied with our polar opposite, Glomdoring. Celest allying with its most hated enemy is equally as bad.