Hey that sounds great!



I never wanted the tainted forest in the first place. I spent quite a bit of my time in Lusternia thinking of everything I could to bring about the regular forest.

Speaking for myself, and not the Glomdoring per se, I hate those who most tend to kill me and/or prevent me from getting on with my life by blocking me from bashing/attacking the villages we protect/chopping down my trees.

Which at current means I don't really hate Magnagora as much because they haven't done any of those things. That's the only reason.

As for us being "kill crazy", we do, as all cities/communes do, have our little pockets of PK-bloodlust-mongers. But as a general organization, we're no more "crazy" than any others. The only thing we're forced at all to kill, is the fae by the nature of our power quest, which I wish to the Gods would be changed, but it probably won't be.

Glomdoring likes Serenwilde and hates celest and magnagora.

However, the people of Serenwilde currently are on the most wanted list, the people of Celest ignored, and the people of Magnagora rather liked.

Glomdoring finds the nature spirits of Stag and Moon to be kindof worthless so who would care what happens to them but they are better then the half formed.

Where glomdoring would naturally go is being diverted by the actions of players (as it should be)

My apologies for making Glom sound like 'bloodlusty pkers'. I think a little too much IC snuck in there.

I think it is Faethorn that's the key to it all. To the Serens, Glom is a current and direct threat to the Fae. If it wasn't for that, I bet the focus would be more on Mag just because they are so large (and being a tainted city is such a double wammy).

In the least, poor Cwin wouldn't have to panic over hearing of yet another 'raid on faethorn' every single month (which gets to you, especialy if you don't like violence in general).

So I don't believe Glom has to go, or even change dramaticly. We just need a more permanent conclusion to this Faethorn war or perhaps just an alternative for Glom to gain power by.

(Or else we can just turn both Glom and Mag into big holes in the ground).

My two cents on this is only in reference to Cwin and Celest's water obsession...

Celest is a city built by Merians and populated primarily by Merians...Who oddly enough resemble fish people...So I just have to wonder why they would have an obsession with water since that's where they live?

It's like saying Elves have an obsession with the forests...maybe because they are connected to the forests in a powerful and significant way that only another group of individuals that are connected to something in such away (Merians, Viscanti, Faeling apparently...) could understand.

That highlighted assumption is the error in your analogy. I don't really like pursuing it, because it's going to end us right where I don't want to be, but let's have a look anyway.

A thing cannot wholly produce another thing that is not also part of itself.

Any thing wholly derived from another thing will share all its characteristics with that thing.

Humanity, created from Nature, is necessarily a part of Nature. To destroy something in a fundamental way, something not present before must be introduced. Humanity, a part of Nature and sharing in characteristics of Nature, cannot therefore be that thing.

Making our terms Lusternian, the same rules apply. It will take something created not by Nature but outside of Nature to disrupt and eventually destroy it. Removing everything of a Natural order from our consideration, we are left with the Light, the Taint, the Gods, and the Soulless.

Introduced into Nature, then, the Light and the Taint will disrupt it, eventually destroying it.

The Gods have the free-will to impact things as They please. So far, only the Soulless seem interested in actually destroying Nature, though whether their actions are based on choice is debatable.

The conclusion from all this that I was hoping to avoid is that civilization cannot be included in the list of things destructive to Nature. The key to consider for most people, however, isn't actually whether or not civilization is destructive to Nature itself, but whether it is destructive to how we want Nature to be, which is an entirely different concept.

What it becomes, then, is not a conflict of being, but a conflict of type of being. This should be familiar, as it and its derivatives form the basis of our own, real, wars and ideological conflicts. Since it has worked so well in our own history, I'm sure there won't be any trouble applying it to Lusternia's.

So, in the end, the Light and the Taint carried to their extreme are the only means available to mortals that can destroy Nature. However, note that without civilization, we would be completely ignorant of both the Light and the Taint, and our present conception of the Taint would not actually exist anyway. Blame it all on civilization, please, but only because it is wielding the things that can harm Nature.

I think it's all real simple, cause I've said this quite a few times before.. Glomdoring when it first opened took a stance of trying to be if not allies ATLEAST neutral with Serenwilde. We proposed pacts, we opened room to talk, alot of people really bent over backwards to extend a handshake to Serenwilde. In exchange Serenwilde would say one thing and do the opposite, a characteristic that has become trademark for them. They agreed to peaces or neutral status but then they refused to put the reigns on people like Munsia and Tuek who violated these agreements and tried to play it off as saying 'They do not represent all of Serenwilde.' except I find this logic flawed entirely because they DO represent Serenwilde, and when Munsia slips into Glom and kills an Aspect or slays a Champion or kills a citizen then she is inciting violence and thus causes Gloms to want to raid Faethorn and to murder Serenwildes in retaliation..

As I've said before people like Munsia are the ones who generate conflict.. and thus are the people you need to try to stem if you're genuine about some of your ideals. When Glomdoring first opened I was about the 3rd or 4th citizen and on that very DAY it opened Celest and Serenwilde were BOTH in Glomdoring killing us as we were inducting our citizens.. Now explain to me how this does anything EXCEPT setup this theory of Taint vs the World that you all seem to despise. Serenwilde could have sent in emissary's and said lets be friendly or atleast neutral, Celest could have sought out methods to stay neutral, alot could have happened but instead we took the quickest easiest route of Kill it.


Now some of you say That's Not Fair, don't let the few represent the masses but thats just how life is.. if people like Munsia are bringing violence to your doorstep then your leaders should remove them or make sure they stop, if they dont do that they FAIL as leaders and its YOUR job to replace them. You have NO right to complain in a society as democratic as IRE is. Personally I think the only thing that stops progress is peoples own stubborn ideals that FORCE them to think the opposite of what they say they truly want, its really shocking how some people cant see the inherit hypocrisy's in some of the things they do.. and in my opinion people should stop lieing to themselves.. Glomdoring came out and said Glomdoring is Glomdoring, it is not Tainted Glomdoring, it is JUST Glomdoring. It didnt even recognise the Taint as an entity but instead voiced itself as part of Nature and nothing more.. its the people in Serenwilde and Celest who FORCED the idea of Taint upon Glomdoring.

Yeah the whole tainted Goddess as a patron and the fact that when you survey it the survey says tainted has nothing to do with it.

In that case you need to better define what is nature and what is not. All the races of players save a few exceptions are splinters of gods, and would thus be unnatural. Which planes are deemed natural and which planes are deemed unnatural? If you are only going to include the Ethereal realm and Prime, then only Fae are natural, and a bit of Elves and faeling. In which case, Humans, elder gods and everybody else is destorying nature when they make changes to it?

Is Estarra not part of nature and thus destroys it when She makes changes?


Crazy, I don't know what just happened... anyway...

Edit: From my understanding, anything that can live and survive on Prime on its own become part of nature nomatter where it first came from. Therefore, Demenses , angels and demons would not be part of nature, Fae is questiable, and everything else becomes part of nature as its intorduced into the basin's ecosystem.

Wrong Cron, Viravain was against the Taint, she was tainted but didnt recognise it, and Surveying the land is OOC information really.. you look at the RP of the place not what you want it to be, thats your peoples entire problem. You want to say Glomdoring is tainted because its what your own thick head tells you, you ignored what Glomdoring ITSELF said.

Guess I ignored the histories too then and Rowena and Brennan and the Histories? Oh and Crow too and everytime Night is bonded.

The histories are the persepective of one lollipringle who was deeply tied to Celest and her intrests.

Well, the other thing there, is that the end goal of the Light was never to destroy nature, but the end goal of the original Taint was, including with it the freeing of Kethuru. The people of Celest worked -alongside- the people of Serenwilde for a long time. Although, like you said, it depends how high up the chain you take the understanding of "nature." If you take it back to the original motivator of the world and put it on Yudhe, you could start trying to say everything is as it should be all of the time. But that's not the most conducive to interesting conflict.

One issue I think a lot of people have with the Glomdoring is that its supporters polarize something which doesn't need to be polarized. Glomdoring can be the "dark side of nature" theoretically, but not so much as a pair with Serenwilde, since Serenwilde is not the "light side" to begin with. Serenwilde contains the whole cycle of entropy and creation, and the understanding of the druids. So you could choose to oppose Glomdoring because it's Tainted and the Taint is destructive to what you know nature to be, or because you might see it as a broken segment of a cycle. There's also the pesky fact that many think Glomdoring is quite selfish and bent on domination, which don't tend to be great traits politically, except possibly when you're the majority.

Syrienne: Glomdoring can say "we're not Tainted" until they're blue in the face to other organizations and it may not largely matter. They're free to think of themselves that way, they're free to see the Taint as irrelevant too... just as free as Celest is to see the Taint as the primary enemy, and to see the Glomdoring as a part of the enemy. Glomdoring has been taught to be "the Tainted forest" long before it was a commune, and used to show the effects that the Taint can have and one of the many examples why the Taint needs to be eradicated. The Supernal's tenets don't exactly agree with how the commune was founded in addition to all of that, so understandably Celest tends to view it as insanity when Glomdoring's members don't believe it is Tainted. Some of Celest is always interested in converts, and some of it is always focused on removing the enemy. A forest wracked by the Taint, infested with it, suddenly with its own voice and aparrently insane on top of naturally destructive as far as Celest is concerned means yes, they will probably be enemies.

On the advice of my advisors and general sanity I choose to no longer respond to your posts.

What I call self-renewing is the characteristic of cyclical variance between new and old, growth and decay, living and dying, creation and destruction.

Nature is what Dynara created as self-renewing. Immortals are therefore outside of Nature, though they were created by Dynara, because they are not inherently self-renewing, but are constant.

Although the Gods are thus outside of Nature, They have the free-will to impact it how They see fit. They simply have the ability to be destructive to it.

Although Humans came from another reality, it was one created by Dynara, and Humans are self-renewing, thus they fit all qualifications for being Natural.

The same is true of the splintered races. Once they ceased being immortal, constant rather than renewing, they met the final qualification of being Natural.

The Cosmic planes represent elements of the Natural cycle carried to their ultimate extreme. They are not unnatural in that respect, but directly introduced into Nature, they push it out of its balance and it ceases to be cyclical and self-renewing, approaching more and more a static reflection of the Cosmic extreme.

That's a very good point, and I have to say you are exactly right. I trace nature back to Dynara and Magnora. Yudhe does represent the ultimate unification of things, and if you bring anything to Him, contrast and conflict evaporate.

Can we please leave the political grandstanding and backstabbing accusations for in character situations They are much more interesting and actually serve a purpose in that context.

Serenwilde and Glomdoring both tried for pacts and tried to get the best deal for themselves from it, even if that meant skirting around the edges of the agreement or blatently ignoring it. Big deal. That's politics and it is what makes interorganisational relationships interesting.

It doesn't really matter who is right or wrong or who has orange knickers on the forums though, now does it?

Don't forget, the soulless gods who were created by Dynara become the tools of Magnora who swallowed up everything Dynara left alone.

I like my orange knickers.

Under your petticoat?