Thats funny, because Glomdoring doesn't build towers. Infact we were told to dig underground because we should not harm the trees or life above us.

No its not.

Gib was physically, spiritually, fundamentally altered by the taint.

I'm sorry, but I don't call the difference between a ten-tonne black snake and a bouncing furrikin 'moral' labels.

Edit: And you have a tower just like we do. Wander your forest for a bit longer.

Your city/commune distinctions are flimsy.

That's simply not true. Your whole argument is based on a fallacy. Taint is not "subjective." It's there. It's real. ...I just can't work out why you're trying to argue otherwise.

the presence of taint is objective. The normative claims of taint being good or bad are NOT objective.

Elryn, that tower is left over from ages passed. Do you think it would be more harmful to leave it there or to knock it down? Seriously? Did you 'wander the forest' before it became a commune and they were making decisions?

Whats -there- is different looking things.

In Serenwilde you have a tree with Bright green leaves, In Glomdoring you have a Tree with thin dark leaves.

In Celestia you have pale faced Supernals, In Nil you have horned, red skinned Demonlords.

You have Smooth skinned Viscanti, and you have Veiny Viscanti with large fangy Bucked teeth. Depending on your fetish, you'll like the Teath as a sign of rugged strength, or you'll like the smooth skin as a sign of nobility.

The moral label is if you call it beautfull or ugly, good or bad, tainted or pure.

When a lightning bolt comes and Chars the side of a tree making it all black, or a termite colony eats out the inside of a tree leaving nothing but a shell, is that Taint? (try not to use circular arguments if your going to try to answer that rhetroical question)

As for flimsy distcitions? I'm using the disctions the game gives me. The Tower that Exists in Glomdoring is old and part of a set of ruins from the time of Gloriana. All construction of Glomdoring happens underground.

I'm sorry you can't tell the difference between hunting something to extiction for the use of its poisions, and hunting animals in a cycle that keeps balance in nature.

Just because you don't understand why cities are so anti nature doesn't mean they arn't, because according to the game definitions, Cities are Against Nature and can even be called the Antithesis of them.

And is that not true of Magnagora and Celest, or Serenwilde's tower?

The only real distinction I used before now was that communes were nature-worshipping, they didn't care about expansion or power, only serving the Spirits.

I find 'because they use buildings' a pretty boring one, its been used a lot previously but I thought Lusternia would have more depth.


WAS IT CAUSED BY A CORRUPTION OF THE ESSENCE OF THE BEING OF THE TREE? WAS IT CAUSED BY A FREAKING SOULLESS ENTITY BENT ON RUINING CREATION?

Explain to me how Gib's transformation is just a shift in moral perspectives.

Sorry to shout, but arguing about this stuff is just dumb.

Ummm, what do you think Buildings are but another form of expansion? Brick/stone/concrete buildings are just a nice easy to point at example of Expansion. If you couldn't tell I was being cheeky when I mentioned the bypass. (recently watched Hitchikers guide)

And if I'm not mistaken, in Serenwilde the 'building' is overrun by nature no?

I do think Celest and Magnagora take great pride in their well polished smoothfaced buildings as a sign of their power over the natural world and thier ability to shape it.

A. The termites eating out the tree, IS a corruption of the being of the tree, it goes from a living thing trying to make its way in the world, into a hallow home for a new species. It just changed its VERY NATURE.

Who knows the cause of the lightning bolt, it could have very well been from and Elder god who were formed outside of the Basin and Nature.


A 10 ton Wyrm is MUCH MUCH cooler and more productive than a tiny little furball? Thats your shift in moral judgement. Sure His body changed, but everything changes in nature to some degree when it improves.

Pity, I didn't want Serenwilde to seek to raze every village to the ground.



No its not, that is the cycle of growth and decay. The tree doesn't ever change from being a tree, it just becomes sick and dies. Very natural, one predator slays another for survival. Unless you want to argue everytime someone catches a cold they become unhuman?

You have -got- to be kidding. You seriously can't be arguing that is a shift in everyone else's perspectives.

...

So let me get this straight.. people are pissed because the conflict has become Taint vs None-Taint and nothing more indepth than that.. but when Glomdoring came out and actually tried not to make it that way they RAMMED the Taint down our throats and said YOU ARE TAINTED ACCEPT IT DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE. They are the same people now telling me its silly to not call Glomdoring tainted and how dumb it is for us to have tried to RP the RP we were put into because everyone else didnt 'feel' like going along with it? I'm sorry but doesn't this just go back to my point I've been making all along that Serenwilde and Celest are responsbile for Glom and Mag being this friendly? I mean if you guys insist on doing only harm to Glomdoring and Magnagora insist on only helping defend it.. what in the bloody hell do you expect to happen?

We're obviously supposed to just roll over and die instead of defending ourselves, Syrienne.

How selfish of us not to do so.

Obviously choosing the side that defends us over the side that seeks to kill everything we fight for is a horrible breech in logic somewhere.

'scuse? You draw from the fact we refuse to go along with this retarded delusion that you're not Tainted that we think you can't believe what you want about your own commune? Well, uh, sure, be my guest, but to think we're going to believe you just because you say it is stupid. Hmm.

Hey, if I say I'm really from Glomdoring and I got enemied by being pooka'd to kill a guard, will you unenemy me again without paying any fines? I mean, it's just my RP so I don't have to be in conflict with you, and it's so STUPID of you not to go along with that! And then you have the nerve to complain about me fighting back in defence of Faethorn and whatnot! Amazing.

EDIT: So you're aware, while of course it is because of Glomdoring's existence that the game is becoming Taint vs. Anti-Taint, which wouldn't have happened had Gloriana come out, I don't think this is necessarily a problem, because there's only so many ways it can go.

You can't get around the fact that Tainted is actually a physical state. Call it a disease, call it an improvement, whatever, but it is not subjective. Either something is Tainted or it is not.

I would like to point out that raiding Glomdoring when it first opened, cutting trees, was not "in defence of Faethorn". Killing Thoril is not defending Faethorn, killing miners is not defending Faethorn, killing guards is not defending Faethorn. Killing krokani is not defending Faethorn, killing Glomdoring commune members on Prime is not defending Faethorn.

If you want to defend Faethorn, fine, DEFEND FAETHORN... all that this other crap does is require us to ask the only other friendly organization there is for help eventually, 'cause we're not just going to roll over and let you keep stepping on us for eternity.

I mean... when an *unnamed organization* was stomping Celest, what did Celest do? They went to look for help. When the same organization pushed at Serenwilde, Serenwilde also went seeking help... neither of those two gave up and acceded to all demands, why do any of your members think that we will? All it does is make us want to actually fight back even more.

(And Shiri, that is in general. I realize you are one of the few who defends Faethorn instead of going "omg they were on Faethorn there's an excuse to KILL THEM ALL MUHAHAHAHAH", and thank you for that.)

I dont willingly admit anything, I think if anything Serenwilde made this conflict Taint vs None Taint long before Glomdoring ever came along. I mean how long had it been Mag vs Seren/Celest on a totally consistent basis long before Glom came? How long has Serenwilde eagerly teamed with Celest in everything? When Glomdoring came along it just gave Magnagora a way to stop being penalised by herb bans and other ridiculas notions that Serenwilde deserved complete control of the vitality of the MUD in alchemy. Magnagora saw this and seized the opertunity to get on Gloms good side while Seren/Celest seem only intent on destroying it.. sorry you all are creating this.. if your only excuse is we just dont -want- to go along with the RP you presented then I fail to see how you can blame the Admins or anyone else for it.

Get used to labeling Syrienne, believe it or not that is how the human brain works. Names are labels, you eat bread don't you? -gasp- But the word bread is a label for it! -gaspeth!- How evil!

Labels are used as not only a way to refer to an object that relates in similar fashion to OTHER objects of a similar nature/appearance. It also is how the brain stores information. It requires labels so it knows where to go to find the information, if there was no label, no identifier, you wouldn't be able to remember anything because there would be no way to recall the specific piece of information, let alone understand what it was.

----
EDIT ONE:
Now on the subject of Taint vs. Non-Taint, that theme, before I even JOINED and logged in was blatantly apparent! Lusternia is all about the classic Good vs. Evil, mind you which side is GOOD is perspective but the point is that's what it is.

This entire mud centers around conflicting sides, of course when you have even groups, it's best to grab a partner and dance the dance of war cause if you're an island unto your self, chances are you're now basically Three on One or however many on One 'cause NO ONE is on your side.

That's war kiddies, get over it.

----
EDIT TWO:
And for those who are complaining about who partnered up with who for this wonderful wonderful dance, you have no right to complain! If you wanted to be dancing with Serenwilde, then don't become a member of Glomdoring or Magnagora!

Part of the reason they partnered up even RP wise is because THEY HAVE LIKE IDEALS, even if those ideals are protecting yourself against the bully of the school yard. People with similar ideals and preferences tend to flock to each other -gasp- isn't that what causes things like Goths, Ravers, and other labeled groups to occur, like-minded individuals gathering to be with those who share thier view points?

Incidentally, the whole reason Magnagora attacked Serenwilde originally was because they were trying to raise Glomdoring and we tried to stop them. Now isn't that interesting? Not to mention that we had as much desire to be forced into allying with Celest to prevent being stomped as you do now. We "eagerly" teamed Magnagora because we'd die if we didn't. It's a part of the same problem that Celest has no REAL ideological reason to hate Serenwilde (arguably the reverse applies, but I don't think even that holds any real weight, since we've already discerned that this whole "they use buildings" stuff is a load of crud, and Celest is trying to fight the Taint they released), yes, but that doesn't mean Glomdoring isn't accentuating the problem.

And wait, wait. We don't want to go along with the RP WE presented? I think you mean you don't want to go with the RP you presented. Which involves every single Seren being bizarrely either deluded or retarded and pretending/failing to realise the Taint exists in Glomdoring.

As a note Magnagora didnt start raising crow to empower Glomdoring, the motivation behind all of that which Magnagora did had nothing to do with Glomdoring. But this would be mostly unknown to anyone who wasnt a high ranking Mag at the time because this information was very secretive for obvious leaking reasons.

That's not something we could have known. Or, in all honesty, cared about, really.