I can truly understand that mindset. However even if we adopt it I think it it gives us more of a reason to fight. Accepting that it is an alien nature is one thing but noone likes cancer and no one likes an invasive organism that destroys the ecosystem. Viewing it as a a cancer or harmful form of alien life is only going to encourage us the inflict more grief on each other.

to use a real life analogy some might understand to add to What estarra said.

When wild pigs were introduced to Hawaii, they started widespread damage because there was nothing there that had adapted to deal with wild pigs. They were not a normal part of that environment.

It's the same with Glomdoring's forest, it was not initially that way, a new, unexpected change was occured and the rest of the basin of life is still dealing with the shock of it. Nature has yet to properly evolve to create a new equalibrium so there is the potential of widespread, possibly irreversible damage that could have dire consequences for all of the basin of life.

Hopefully that was clear, and understandable ;;

Ah, so maybe I'm misunderstanding the issue. Serenwilde wants reasons to get along with Glomdoring?

Its a good analogy, Estarra, and thankyou for contributing. I don't think it is terribly different to what mindset Serenwilde is taking at the moment, perhaps ours is simply not as well expressed.

If that is the path Glomdoring is eventually going to take, then I might be a little less disappointed. I do believe that as long as it remains tainted there will be zero chance of any commune vs city alliance, or any breaking of the Magdoring vs Celenwilde merger.

The Fae are somewhat a problem, as they are the physical expression of Lusternia's 'Nature', but I suppose we can ignore that for now.

Edit: And that last comment was less than I have come to expect.

As I said, if Glomdoring took on that role that you have enunciated, considering the existing wilderness as something foreign to themselves or something to be subsumed, then it would be much less frustrating.

I'm not sure why you would think it hasn't taken that role. Blacktalon "infests" natural forests, and Viravain has been screaming about "swarming". There's probably other RP to reinforce that that only those in Glomdoring may be aware of.

Mainly the impression I get from Glomdoring characters.

To get back to looking for RP reasons why Serenwilde and Glomdoring would want join forces, at least for short-term alliances against cities, mages do destroy plant life whenever they meld a location. Cities that spread their influence across villages garner power that could otherwise be used for nature ala communes. There are quests that will allow communes to gain power at the expense of cities (and vice versa) but no one seems to like doing them.

Hmm. I’ll think on the matter some more. Maybe we could do a bit more to encourage it.

oo, celest and magnagora fighting the forests, sounds like fun

Estarra, if Serenwilde is supposed to protect the Fae, and Glomdoring is supposed to kill the Fae, how would you ever expect the two to get along?

I'm glad you're looking at things, but realistically those reasons for short-term alliances against cities pale in comparison to the difference between Serenwilde and Glomdoring.

Serenwilde views Glomdoring as a defiler of the things it holds sacred, remember Glomdoring kills and enslaves the fae, and does something similar (though slightly different) to the forest. I'm sure eventually Glomdoring will view Serenwilde with the contempt of being absolutely an obstacle in all of its plans, since as long as Serenwilde exists Glomdoring cannot overcome the 'healthy' (using your analogy) parts of the wilderness and allow their spirits to expand their influence.

Saying that Serenwilde should join up with the party who rapes and murders its gods to stop a few plants being trampled or for the sake of a few extra drops of power... it isn't remotely logical. At least until you provide another analogy. *cough*

An alliance between the SW and Glomdoring?

I thought that was what you were asking for?

I think they wanted a reason for cease-fire, not an alliance.

It'd be nice, peace between glomdoring and serenwilde, but it's not actually feasable with the current philosophies of both communes. One of the two would require a major change to make it work.

Not really. A lot us wanted Gloriana to form an anti city axis with(as a counter to taint vs. non-taint). At one point we may have even wanted to at least be at peace with Glomdoring. By now there is so much ill will that is filtering OOC that allying with Glomdoring is paletable to no one. Some of us would settle for a big wall between the two so that we never have to look at each other again (so long as no fae are being harmed).

Hehe, I relate to your bitterness Cron.

I don't want an alliance with tainted Glomdoring -at all-. I was just saying why there won't be one, and alliances between non-tainted city/commune and tainted city/commune will be reinforced.

It's not that we're asking for a treaty, a ceasefire, an alliance... we could do that ourselves, and have tried. But it can't happen because, as Elryn points out, the gulfs are too great, the ideological differences too impossibly big even for a temporary alliance. All we're wishing for was a way that that last sentence could stop being true.

We don't want you to force us to ignore the dispute over the fae... we want to have a way to make the dispute over the fae stop, or fade into the background, even if only temporarily, even if only to give us the faintest hint of an opportunity to explore a more interesting and complex set of nation interactions with Glomdoring than 'we hate you, die!'. Ditto for the other divides between us.

We cannot and do not want to have less-than-entirely-hostile relations with the Glomdoring that is there now, and they cannot and do not want to have less-than-entirely-hostile relations with the Serenwilde that is there now. Something will have to change somewhere before those things become even vaguely feasible. That's what we want, that change. (Naturally, being selfish, we Serens tend to think "we were here first, make them change!" but at the same time, if some event caused us to re-evaluate our relationship with them and gave us real reasons to do so, we'd whine and gnash our teeth but ultimately we'd find a way.)

I had my own (long) post but realy, Gwylifar's post right above mine said it all, and with less words. Go read it.

As for me, I'll sum it up, we're tired, mommy, we want to go home now.

Well, to add to that one: we realy don't need both sides to hate each other less.. just to have to spend less time killing each other.

I want to make one more note specifically to the admin. I really appreciate the effort (as I see it) that was put forth with the concept of Crazy Virvain and not seeing the taint. This kind of amalgalm would allow a reasonable method for the Gloriana and Glomdoring crowds to merge their RP and work together.
You could either be like the original Crows and see the taint and embrace it or you could be an insane member of the Summer Court and still play it off as if you were in Gloriana. If Glomdoring had been sealed off from the outside somehow and the two groups allowed to meld without outside (Seren, Magnagora, Celest) intervention it may have worked. Unfortunately this seems to be a best laid plans of mice and men sort of deal.

Totally agreed, Cron, and even before the commune was released the semi-untainting was a nice little gift. I'll never say the admin don't try to appease everyone.