I approached Veonira on this one before, though I haven't really seen anything done about it. I doubt she really could have said anything, and it was only until this time I realized that I could actually make a post about it.

It mostly deals with the descriptions that activated by Tainted areas. For one, This was always bothersome to me as a Magnagoran... looking at the descriptor you see "The corrosiveness of the taint sickens the land."

Uh, excuse me?

Thing is, I play a Viscanti that is walking Taint... and lemme tell you, he's not ugly, decrepit, nor sick. He doesn’t have pustules over his body and he's not rotting away into nothingness. This is something that has concerned me as a player because I'm unable to properly role play my character as if he's doing something that is GOOD for the world. I'm sickening the land? Hell, what does one of evil have if he destroys everything he's trying to obtain?



Viscanti don't "sicken" they land, they imbue it with their power. They change it and alter it into another form and shape. Its "unnatural" but in my view it is "change" and it is for the better. On top of that, I look at the other descriptions and they're -neutral-. This makes sense how?

I propose that the trigger for, at least, Magnagorans should be different. I doubt this is hard at all to throw into the system either way.

Okay, you gods may be askin'... hey! Why should I do this? I could just leave it...

Well, for one, it gives your characters a new kind of twist to the world you made. Characters can argue and debate the validity of their arguments because their perceptions on the taint are different than anyone else. This leads to better role playing in the end, where you have Taint sitting there but the two sides see it differently.

"The transforming properties of the taint permeates the land."

I would weep in happiness if I saw this. Not only is it neutral for Mags, but it gives us our REAL perspective on what the taint is for us. And not only that, but you can keep the old description for everyone else as needed. Hey, like I said, this really will help the role playing aspects of the game, even the Celestians now have more of a reason to fight or even try to convert. Bam, dynamics increase even slightly. You have an environment that is more active, real, and immersive.

You know that isn't such a bad idea actually.

Oh if Glomdoring is intending to keep going down the path of 'Taint? What are you talking about, foo?', then maybe what they see could be altered too?

I wonder how hard it would be. Hmm.

I don't like this simply because descriptions must use our real-life values on appearance as a frame of reference for understanding.

We can't start saying things like 'a noble, beautiful archdemon' because we know that if we came across a demon in real life, it would be considered hideous. The people that summon these demons of course might find them noble and beautiful, but I think they realize that objectively they are quite frightening to non-Nihilists.

Edit: Unless of course it only appeared this way to Tainted characters, with the other demesne messages changing accordingly... ie

'This location is flooded with the revolting, fetid waters of an unclean ocean.'

Edit2: ... and thats what you said. *cough*

Missed that bit - ok, sounds fine if its for Magnagorans.

Great idea. And I'm glad you posted about this. I really don't like how the taint is viewed as sickening to everyone.

Thing is, I'm not talking about arch-demons, demons are demons and that's about it, you can't take a perspective on how they look because they're just what they are... demons. If I saw a demon it wouldn't be noble, it would be terrifying but I would see it in a good way. But that's just because it is a demon again...

The Taint is not the same thing... this is the stuff that is horribly subjective to interpretation and opinion. Remember, particularly for Viscanti, the Taint heals our bodies and our mana. The taint is something we put into the ground and look out of, a tool and it has use. All the cities and communes have some kind of equivalent.

Geomancers go about and see water/trees... and it has a neutral appearance to us. It's nice crystal clear water... an ethereal forest reaches into the skies.



And we have a corrosive, sickening power? Not to me, and I think that is the entire point... we're not even allowed the benefit of the doubt like everyone else.

That's what his point is, I think. F.e, Glomdoring is deluded, and roleplaying as such, right? But they have to put up with neutral messages. I think it detracts from it.

If you think about it, this might be part of the reason Magnagora is famed for random-PKers. They're seen as evil, and what THEY see supports that. :/

Good idea.

Edit: Meh, I don't need to be so argumentative about this.

If its for Magnagorans/Glomdoring characters only, its a good idea.

Insofar as I roleplay my character, I do consider the untainted lands inferior, but my character has done studies on the elemental plane of earth and has seen negative effects on -some- denizens there. As far as I've seen, if you can't survive the effects of the taint, you're too weak either way.

But this is not reflected by "sickening". Corrosive? No, that implies ultimate destruction when the Taint has been -proven- (shoot, my character is proof) that the Taint doesn't destroy... it changes. That makes the old taint descriptor even -more- invalid in my eyes.

EDIT: I didn't realize we were arguing

In a Viscanti's eyes, a flooded room could be seen as sickening and grotesque, yet we still see it on neutral terms as crystal clear water.

We have to be able to generalise these descriptions, but I do think it wouldn't be so bad to make them city/commune specific as the need arises.

I don't want to it to get into too much detail though or it starts to become intrusive on how I want to play my character, which I guess is eaxactly what the original poster feels is happening.

*nods to Athana*

I think it would do well if all the cities had their own perspective on the other effects. I'm asking for altered descriptions for everyone at the most... at the least I'm asking for a little less biased view on what the taint is, like:

"The overwhelming effects of the taint mutates the land."

Which is much, much more neutral and subjective to perspective like everyone elses is.

I agree that this is a great idea, and I actually proposed it in another thread before I saw this one. If you look at the conceptual design plans for Magnagora and the Viscanti as told by Estarra, the Viscanti are a very vain and extraordinarily beautiful race. There's nothing about their appearance that's sickening or revolting, and despite Magnagora being an Industrial Revolution-esque cityscape, I think the same can be said for it. So why, then, is the Taint disgusting, sickening and revolting in the demesne form?

Further, the current description has absolutely nothing to do with Geomancy. It's pure, unadulterated Taint. I would really like to see the demesne tie into the Earth element of the Geomancers (unless I missed where they were renamed to the Taintmancers ). It doesn't have to be "The glorious beauty of the Taint dazzles the eyes!", but it should at least be neutral to preserve the gray-area part of the Taint that differentiates it from "evil."

P.S. I love that Magnagora banner!

Actually, this is something that I've been thinking about a lot, due to the Glomdoring "can't see taint/don't care about taint" thing. All of those descriptions and such that say tainted are for the OOC perspective... your character doesn't necessarily see it like that. When bonding to Night, it says that her tainted presence causes you to shiver... though for a member of Glomdoring, while this shiver would still happen, it most likely would be felt more as embracing the power of one of our Great Spirits. Your character doesn't see the WORDS, just the impression that the words give, as seen through their eyes.

Though the actual geomancer demesne should be changed, since it turns things into an earthen wasteland now. Perhaps "A wasteland of tainted earth covers the ground"... well, that isn't far from "sickening," I suppose.

Problem I have with that is that if you're seeing it in an OOC perspective that is already pulling you out of the game. This is even further proof that this needs to be changed as soon as possible so that the gameplay can be richer, more interactive, and more immersive.

What, are they going to code every little thing that says "taint" so that Glomdoring folk whose characters can't see it, don't? That's just a little excessive.

I think it would be super if instead of tainted forest it merely said dark forest and instead of tainted locusts when we infest it was just locusts. But just later down the line when they feel they have free time.

Okay, so maybe I'm just forgetful, but isn't it "Shadowy" forest, not "Tainted" forest? *think*

It was originally shadowy forest, right? I could have sworn infestation was newer.

Actually the description is...

The shadowy outline of a twisted forest casts a dark gloom here.

infest is:

You press your lips together and make a buzzing sound. Then you open your mouth
and vomit forth a stream of tainted locusts that greedily infest the
surrounding land and gorge themselves until they bloat.


Survey says its tainted forest.

Blacktalon calls it dark forest

There are different descriptions for forest depending on the original environment. If it was anything aside from natural forest, Blacktalon see the above. This equates to the ethereal forest that druids summon on any environment other than tainted forest.

If you taint natural forest, or purify tainted forest however, the description is different. Thats where the locust one comes in for blacktalon.

As Estarra pointed out, that is one of the defining characteristics of the difference between glomdoring/serenwilde forests, so I do hope that at least stays as it is.