The way I see it, The histories where written by Celest, the world you see as a player is the history of the world as written by that same Celest perspective.

There is no reason to change what you as a player sees, as long as you remind yourself that your player sees this, your charachter can be seeing something entirely different.

I would love it to if it wasn't for the fact that the Megalith is INDOORS

Daganev, once again, while the history was written from the Celest perspective... the game isn't. When I'm playing my game I'm playing it from Melgoth's perspective. Being a Magnagoran Geomancer he is viewing the world from his eyes, no one elses. Again, this is pulling the character away from the Lusternian world and putting you back into your seat in front of your computer.

Not good.

ALL good games lock you into their worlds, and you practically forget you're not playing a -game-. And unlike most modern video games, there are no images that allow you to interpret what you see. This is text and by making either alterations... be it the simple change to the Taint descriptor to be more 'interpretation friendly' like everyone elses, or creating a "perspective enhancing" description code so you see the same things differently depending on your city... you will be emulating the same visuals you get out of a PC or console game.


Oh, and I had no idea the Megalith is indoors.... I guess I'll have to study the description but it wouldnt' make sense considering the Megalith is pumping ash, dirt, and taint constantly into the sky above....

EDIT: Holy crap... this is actually kinda' cool... you're right, it does exist in the Necropolis.... I guess that means the Necropolis is really, really friggin' huge... which is even more awesome.... thankfully I saved the photoshop file

If you really want different descriptions, I suggest using ZMUd and using the SUB command. It makes life really fun!


If you read the posts the admin have made concerning AB files, I think they support the idea that the text you see is not necessarily the text that your charachter sees, rather its a description that allows you as the player to understand whats going on. Thats the beauty of text!


Please show me in the game world where anything is not written from the perspective that Light is good and great and Celest and merians are the most wonderfull things in the world.

Its more accurate to say though that the descriptions are written in a way for a person living on earth in the year 2005 can understand the perspective rather than what a charachter in game sees.

Do you think Viravain has a version of the code where the word taint does not exist?

FYI: Geomancers pollute the earth. In fact, their boulders are made of poisonous earth (hence they do some poison damage). The trans skill in Geomancy is none other than pollute... the geomancers have a guild rank that implies one to be a master of poo. I'd call that icky and nasty regardless if you are a viscanti or not.

"Boulders coated with a sticky red substance burst forth from the earth here."

Again, this is seeing out of the eyes of the MUD and, I feel, is taking away from the experience. While it works well and fine, it can be -improved-. In this case, change is good and I disagree that this is the beauty of text. I'm a gamer man, from these MUDs to the latest 1st person shooters for PC to WhiteWolf/D&D. This isn't beauty, and it is something that, if changed, would truly heighten the experience of the game.

And I'm not talking about that kinda' thing in Celest (I'm wondering why you brought it up in the first place), in fact, I'm saying at the "least" make the text for Taint neutral like Seren's, Celest's, and Glom's.

Why only have a half ass experience, when you can really delve your gamers into your world.

I just don't think it would be possible to create 6 different perspectives of the world, for every little thing.

I don't think the world is currently written in a neutral state for Celest and Serenwilde, I think its written pro Celest. It is Celest's morals and values that are placed in the adjectives used to describe the world. To me that makes the world more imersive, not less because its as if I'm living a Celestian history book, giving a nice context to the emerision. Its a bit how when you watch the Never ending story, you know in the back of your mind that your just viewing the book that this boy is now living in.

Sir, I'm not talking about every little thing. I think you're fallen off the topic somehow, and by taking a glimpse at the title, you can see what this discussion is pertainting to.

It is talking about the Taint description. It is also losely talking about Forests, Twisted Forests, and Flooding. I'm not talking about anything else and I'm not asking about different points of view on every single little object. A demonic scorched shortsword looks the same to everyone, no matter what city you are.

The Taint on the other hand, does not. Insofar as any Geomancer will tell you, the Taint does isn't corrosive and it does not sicken. My character, a Viscanti, is not an avatar of macabre mutation and illness. The taint is poisonous, yes, but lots of animals have poisons running in their systems.

And I don't care if this is Celest's system. If that is true, then it is -wrong- Celestians are -not- the only ones playing this game. This makes it -even worse- because we are getting new cities very, very soon. Are they supposed to see the world through someone elses perspective?

No. And I'll say it again, no.

My good sir, in case you haven't noticed, this isn't a book. This is a game, and on top of that, it is a multiplayer role playing game. Yeah, it has text, and yeah, you have to read, but guess what? The players are making their own stories along with what the administrators and programmers have put in.

They put an elf in the middle of a game. Most of the cities will walk by it, not even really taking note of it. Throw a Magnagoran in and he's probably bullied and straight up shunned.

You can't do this in a book, but you sure can do this in a game. And that is exactly what this is. I don't want to be told that Taint is sickening the land when he believes he is making it better by Tainting it. All the other mage's elemental specializations have neutral connotations. This allows great interpretation to their effects and how they effect every city. The Geomancers do not have this kind of opportunity, and that is primarily what I'm asking for. The taint is power for me, not a disease. It is poison, but dammit, it is -my- poison, my venom. It runs in my blood and makes -other- poisons much less effective. I pull it out of the earth and destroy others with it, for my flesh is engrained with it... and compared to others of my race that do not chose to use it, my mastery of the Taint gives me greater intellect and charisma.

It is empowering me... not corroding me. It is uplifting me, not sickening me.

Making changes to reflect this, on one side of my idea, would deepen my experience and others that play. If one altered descriptions of water, twisted forest, forest, and taint to reflect each city's personal beliefs will not have a negative effect on the game, and it could only have benefits. It encourages more role playing, it gives good insight to your city's personal beliefs, and it gives reason to act out those beliefs.

And if you change your city your views on the past will reflect that. This makes for a more dynamic world, and a more immersive and enjoyable one to experience.

I'm not going to read past the first post, it's stupid enough to negate this topic and lock it before its idiocy captures someone.

Listen to me, VIscanti and Tainted beasts..

Taint is BAD. It's in the histories that it is BAD. It twists and deforms from a natural state. This is BAD. You are not something Good at all, you cannot RP being something Good for the land or another as a tainted, blasphemous hound. It's your RP to be something bad. You do not make up the RP of tainted things, the game has already told us what Tainted things are.

I don't think you are getting the concept of the thread, which is because you decided not to read it.

To Magnagora, the Taint is NOT bad. He is simply wondering why that the effects of the geomancer melding are not neutral in terms of that little line before the room description when put in view with the melding of the other guilds.

actually, as a magnagoran, I don't view the taint as pretty. In fact, I view the taint as a tool, as something to be used. I view change as good as long as I can use it.

Ahh, you are correct, I missunderstood your request. When you repeated it, only the later paragraphs made me understand, that you were refering to the Geomancer ability only.

What I ment was that many Glomdoring skills say the word "tainted" in it, even though viravain and many people in glomdoring very clearly do not see any such "taint" existing.

As to a suggestion, I would say "Maddening Earth transforms the local terrain" or "Gargatuan Earthformations transfroms the local environment"... using words like transformation might be best.


on a side note, I would dissagree with you that having the game given from a certain perspective makes it less immersive, rather I would argue its a seperate type of immersion. I did not claim that the Mud is a book, I was comparing it to the movie, "The Never Ending Story", which just happens to be about a book, or the movie "The Princess Bride" which has the same methods employed.

While not directly related to this idea, there is something about this general trend that I would like to comment on.

I don't think Taint itself, demons, tainted forest, necromancy and undeath should be adjusted to be neutral for anyone. That reduces conflict into personal preference, semantics, and prejudice alone.

Instead, the 'shades of grey' we should be looking at are the way that these things are used, and why. I doubt a reasonable Blacktalon would deny he is infesting and destroying the forest he forcecasts in, but he probably -would- think that by doing so he is recreating it in a more powerful form that will allow his people to survive and grow stronger. It is not necessarily a destructive, evil mindset that causes a Nihilist to spawn undead... perhaps he is doing so because he requires their aide in defending his family from evil forest raiders, or because he needs to command them to reveal some nefarious plot that the Light has hatched to obliterate his people.

Making nothing 'bad' for anyone else produces a world in which there is no substance for strong roles or beliefs. Making those 'bad' actions justifyable for 'good' results gives the complexity and immersion you may be looking for.

But thats EXACTLY what all conflict is.

Cats kill mice. Is that personal preference, semantics or prejudice?

Someone rapes your sister. Is your conflict with that person personal preference, semantics or prejudice?

Someone tries to burn down your home and kill you because they want your land. Is your conflict with that person personal preference, semantics or prejudice?

It says 'sickens the land', not -you-, Viscanti. Taint might be the source of your well-being, you may feel wonderful in it's presence (regeneration and all), but the land itself -is- polluted, nothing can grow there after all.

But I sort of agree that it sounds too negative compared to other demesne lines.

Crystal water and corrosiveness of the taint - both have the same attributes considering mechanics, but which will be considered more destructive and negative by your typical Serenwilder (just an example)? I bet it's gonna be 'sickened' land, even if only subconsciously.

Ummm, yes.

The cat wants to eat the mouse, thats his personal prefrance, the mouse wants to live, thats his personal prefrance.

Its my prejudice towards people who harm my family, purely because they are my family. If that person raped someone elses sister, I doubt I would be as prone to violent or legal conflict. I use "I" as a rhetorical society, since studies have shown about 1 out of 10 people will ever go to help a stranger, if they have other things to do.


Again, if they want my land, I also want it. There is nothing other than personal prefrance that says I should have that land over them. Maybe they have a better use for it in a collective sense.

Ok, I don't mean personal preference in the sense 'oh, its my preference to survive today'.

I mean personal preference in the sense 'I much prefer red to green'.


I'll rephrase it as 'aesthetic preference' instead of 'personal preference', just to avoid confusion.

Not everyone shares your simplified, black&white vision of Lusternia.

I don't know if you're confusing these OOC forums with game, but... blasphemous? To what? -You-? Celest? Was that your character's manifest?