If you asked a Serenwilder he would say that everyone should destroy their cities and go back to the natural way of living climbing trees, gathering nuts, and healing the land. This game was set up in a way that all communes have different ideas on what is right and what is the norm.

For a Magnagoran, the Taint is a norm no matter what race you are.

You caught my idea though.

So, to reiterate for everyone:

Idea A: Change the taint description so that it is neutral visually like everyone elses.

Idea B: Change all descriptions of Taint, Forests, Twisted Forests, and Flooding so that each city sees its own stereotype. For example:

A celestian will see: "The corrosiveness of the taint sickens the land."
A Serenwilder will see: "The corrosiveness of the taint sickens the land."
A Glom will see: "The raw power of the earth manifests itself here."
A Mag will see: "The transforming properties of the taint permeates the land."

There are only examples, of course, and if you guys have better ideas, post them here. In fact, post what other cities might see insofar as your demesne abilities too! Maybe we can save the programmers/designers some time

And on a side note, Rafael Lenu, shut up about all that... I don't mind you getting on my ass about it in game, but for for goodness sakes this isn't a game. This is a forum, and I'll have you know I have my own Celestian character thankyouverymuch, so please... realize out here you're not a noble crusader, you're just someone sitting in front of a computer. Sheesh.

Perhaps instead of trying to change how the taint looks, perhaps the perspective of the player needs to alter. True, the taint is 'sickening the land', but WHY is that the worst thing in the world?

Perhaps the sickening is the part of the land that actualy needs to go to let the part that would accept the taint thrive. Once the weak/useless/unstable (take your pick on words) part is gone, the land will grow back stronger than ever. Mag can use Glomdoring as an example, showing that the herbs and trees continue to grow under the taint (though, yes Glom would definatly hate and deny it).

"When a close batch of trees grow, some of them must get choked, wither, and die so that the others, and thus the forest, can reach their full height. When a child grows too old for their baby teeth, the teeth lose their roots and fall out to allow the adult teeth room. What you see isn't the end of the world, but the removal of the part that needs to die to let it's true form grow".

Or..

Perhaps the sickening is the land rejecting the taint, not because it's 'evil' but because an opposing force is forcing the land to reject it. Otherwise, the land would accept the change without incident. Of course, the question is 'what's the opposing force?'. The Light, of course.

"For too long in history the Empire has used the Light to hold the world. Now that the taint has come, they continue to hold as much of the world as they can. This forced conflict is causing the land to tremble and cry out, just like a village stuck in the middle of a war between two large armies. It's not unhealthy for the taint to change the land: it's unhealthy for the land to be fought, perhaps to the point of destruction. Once the Empire has ended their power hungry attempt to hold on to their outdated ways, the war can end and the land can gently accept the change that comes"

Remember to NOT read this as a player trying to find the "ultimate truth", and DEFINATLY don't read this as a Celestine would. The point is that this IS a logical argument, true or not, and is one Mag can take in to explain the 'ugliness' the taint does on the land.

Also remember that the taint is a force that alters the mind of the individual. Mag DEFINATLY should not be seeing what they do as evil; they should see it as 'the proper way'. Even IF they are supposed to be evil, they should feel that way. Few people in the world actualy think of themselves as evil: most believe that their way is 'the proper way of things" and "good for all".

Of course, Celest still won't like them, since the Light is "the proper way of things" and is "good for all"...right?

That is very true, and I did a study on the taint, particularly within the Elemental Plane of Earth itself, in both sections. Crylia apparently really enjoyed the read either way, but I basically pointed to gargoyles as proof that only the strong could survive the taint, which I then noted the stoneghasts running about as happy as puppies.

Nonetheless, I'm mostly pushing for a more neutral perspective on the visual for the taint, as it tends to push for a more dogmatic view on it, and it is hard for a Magnagoran to stand on tainted land and justify himself... which is where I got the idea from... you have a Mag talking about the taint based on how he sees it.... transforming and imbuing... and you have celestians/seren standing there seeing the sickening corrosiveness. I think its too delicious of a RP session to give up, or not implement.

Tainted fiend, listen to I. The Taint DOES sicken the land to ALL. You like this sickened state, but it's in no way neutral to anyone. This is how the game made it because that's what it is. It's not neutral, Taint has deformed the land, whether you see it as a neutral or good thing, it's bad. Changing this would have totally smack the history of the game. So, mortal, quiet for thou art a badgermushroom.

Except that it doesn't. Yay for herbs growing in Glomdoring! And growing well, at that.

First of all, I don't put up with this kind of crap in any forum. I have visited several forums in my history on the internet, and I won't make any exceptions here.

I am trying to make a thread where we can have some sort of intellectual discussion, and I didn't make this thread for some 'holier than thou' that can't tell when he's not playing a game. And another thing, someone hasn't read the Lusternian history, and if he has, then he missed several points. The Taint is open to interpretation, and this is seen heavily in the histories.

Another thing, I'm not a tainted fiend. I am a male living in the United States typing on a computer. This immature prattle has annoyed more than one person. Get the picture and get your head out of your ass.

Back on topic please... yeesh.

I don't think he's serious. Chill a little? :/

I haven't seen any indication (in this thread or others) that he is... if he is... meh... if he isn't....

If he's NOT being serious its much worse than if he is. Its like trying to have a serious conversation when there is a guy in the room shouting at the top of his lungs.. "PULL MY FINGER, PULL MY FINGER!"


I still think the Celest perspective of the world is still important. It gives the game a nice compass in which you can base everything else off of better fit into your mind the complexities of Lusternia into things you know. It makes it easier for newbies, and if after a while, then people who have been around for a while can see new and interesting things and continue to have a growing experience in the game, rather than just having everythign be "as it is" straight out.

I find the best stories are the ones where after you hear point 10, your reminded about something sublte about point 1 in which you turn and go.. "ahhhh, so thats why that was like that"

You do realize almost nothing in the histories was actually written by a Celestian, Daganev?

And there were parts obviously spoken by Gloriana, Hallifax, Gaudigach and (I extrapolate) Ackleberry?

Yes, it was a Furrikin who wanted to be in Celest, and moved there, and loved it more than anything else.

It shows the conversations of those groups, but the voice does not change except for once or twice, it always one perspective reporting on various events.

The voice changes a lot. Globglob's broadcasts is told from the third person, Rowena writes her own diary, same with the Hallifax and Gaudiguch aetherwave reports, not to mention Hallifax's written minutes and the Gaudiguch news. And the Emperor's proclamation. And that's all off the top of my head.

Hmm. I'm fairly sure Globglob was a member of Magnagora, actually. I'll check it in a little bit.

Edit: Moved to the right place.

I'd just like to point out that you as a player have lost all respect from me. I know you probably don't care. How old are you, again?

Perhaps before we go on about perspectives and details, we need to decide, as an OOC community of players, something:

Does the taint actualy weaken the land?

Perspectives are nice to have, but, in all truth, the descriptions in game realy SHOULD be the truth (or a very good lie, i.e. an illusion). If the taint is truly withering the land and nothing's there to cloud that vision, then changing the description is silly: what you see IS what's happening. Beyond the visuals, you can interpret it to something nice or ignore it all you want ICly, but it still won't change how it actualy looks, just how your character reacts to it.

Of course we could just leave that question to the gods to decide, but by the description they've already decided, and it's up to us to roleplay accordingly (you can't ignore or fight the DM when they say "it's how it is", only decide how you feel about it).

Glom is a good example of handling it, I think. What you see is a lie, based on Celest's illusionary power and manipulation. It explains the descriptions well enough.

No. It's just a demesne, it can be removed and forested just the same as aquamancer's demesne. There's no difference in mechanics.

Actually, just a moment ago in another thread I've seen a Serenwilder say that flood is just water, trees are still there underneath and it's in no way comparable to tainted wasteland which 'sickens the land'.

THat was in this thread, actually, but it got moved to a different thread for some obscure reason I'm not aware of yet.

I'm just gonna outline other perspective on taint:

Taint is just a force, something alien from outside the basin, brought here by Kethuru who used it to propagate himself and bring everything it touched under his sway. It was not Taint which caused all that rapid mutations into monsters, it was Kethuru. It was just like Kethuru was riding the Taint, infested with his powers.

Now if we discovered the taint in it's pure, neutral form, it wouldn't mutate everyone into demons and undead. It would be a force of change, but without any preference about how it changes things. Kethuru's gone but the Taint which is left remains warped and shaped by him, that's why it tends to turn things into 'abominations'. But as it does not include his presence, it's just a tool. Doesn't matter that it's still in Kethuru's 'configuration', it's not about the looks.

Just a perspective, I doubt anyone would share it, but possibilities are there.