Lets look at what Lusternia offers us more closely.

1. Complicated thoughts
2. Complicated behaviours
3. Self destructive teachings
4. Productive teachings.
5. Simple thoughts
6. Simple Behaviours.
7. Ideas and actions that will allow you to be at war with everybody
8. Ideas and actions that will allow you to ba at peace with everybody.




You choose to focus on the racial intolerance, and religious fanaticism. In real life, in this wonderfully complex world of ours, your given education by the government, yet for somereason, you don't always agree with the government. Why should your charachter always agree with what they were taught?

Many magnagorans did not vote for people just because they were viscanti, however, some people did only vote for people because they were viscanti. Both are viable methods, and in Lusternia they allow for a whole gambit of thought and action, some of which inherentily contradict eachother, and some of which support eachother.

The Moondancers are very spiritual and some are fanatics. And? It's good rp. The Serenguard doesn't preach strong anti-taint views. We have a help file on it and we know to protect our forest against it. The news boards aren't filled with anti-taint views.

Most of the Serens are pretty tolerant. I remember more than half of the commune lashing out against a member who spoke up publically against welcoming a Viscanti into the commune. Everyone jumped down his throat.

What's this talk of Lisaera being removed? Are you gathering from these posts that everyone is unhappy with her rp? She hasn't forced us towards Celest or against Glomdoring.

I don't want to work with a tainted organization. There's always room to discuss cease-fires but no alliance with the taint. WTF.

I don't see why we have to associate ourselves with Glomdoring simply because they're a forest. It's a tainted forest and is surrounded by a lot of bad history. I'd rather see each organization able to stand on their own and only working together if absolutely necessary.

Problem is Malicia, that when a Tainted organization offers peace to a non tainted organization, the non tainted people immedatly assume that there is some trick invovled, when no trick exists.

If fact, when you tell seomeone "Tell me what you want us to do and we will do it", they turn around and say "No you tell me waht I want, this must be a trick!"

I think it comes down to the fact that certain groups of people just don't want the possiblity of ever having peace with people because then they don't have reasons to go out and PK, so they take the most simple and least interesting RP available to them and become fanatics over it.

People did not join Glomdoring because they couldn't fit in the other organizations, most people who joined glomdoring leadership set up pre planned RP situations to give them reasons to leave their respective orgs. Daganev for example starting driving a wedge between himself and the leadership for over 5 years before he left. Now that Fain isn't allowed to be a patron of Glomdoring these things can be said publicly now.

I was simply saying, apparently everyone seems to believe that it's Lisaera who is insisting Serenwilde stay away from Glomdoring. I was told by one of Glomdoring's leaders the other day that they were fairly close to coming up with a treaty or at least cease-fire until Lisaera "ruined it" by insisting Serenwilde go raid something.

And if you don't see why you have to associate with Glomdoring just because they're a forest, please feel free to explain why you feel the need to associate with Celest just because it's anti-taint. You said you'd rather see each organization able to stand on their own. So do it. Serenwilde is Celest's crutch, not the other way around. Celest has very few valuable fighters and I seriously doubt that Serenwilde would be at a considerable disadvantage if they stopped aiding Celest. Yes, perhaps it's better for a village to fall to Celest rather than Magnagora, but you COULD just sit on the sidelines and let them work it out for themselves.


I wasn't implying that people (you, for example) left Magnagora because they couldn't fit into other organizations. And no, most people who joined Glomdoring and gained leadership positions had no sort of RP pre-planned and in many cases did not even attempt impromptu RP. What reasons did Gwynevere have for suddenly abandoning Serenwilde? How about Bau? Jasper? (Yes, I know they were all part of Viravain's little band of merry followers, but still.) What reasons did Etanru have to leave Celest? How about Ethelon? (I know Ethelon originally had intentions early on to join Glomdoring, but he sure did not seem to act out any sort of RP behind it up until it was evident Glomdoring would be released.) Why did Chade leave Magnagora? Sure, there's probably numerous subtle reasons, but as someone before me already said, overall it played out very poorly and very disappointingly.

So, it's lame and bad RP if anyone from Celest or Serenwilde joins Glomdoring.

It's suspicious and leads to metagaming alliances if anyone from Magnagora joins Glomdoring.

So we're supposed to build up our commune based solely on alts and newbies? Hrm.

If Serwnwilde was doing what they were doing for theier own intrests, they would be the Community with five villages, not Celest.

No, but you could have at least PRETENDED to have a reason to jump ship other than because Glomdoring was new and cool.

It's really too late now anyway, it doesn't matter.

But I think it's a bit funny how you seem to imply having Serenwilders and Magnagorans join up for no real reason was "building up" the commune when it's still being beaten up by Serenwilde and is using Magnagora as a crutch. It's about as well off as it WOULD have been composed of alts and newbies.

We don't want five villages. It's not about numbers for us. If we were all about power, we'd choose a despotic rule, milk each village for 2000 power a day and none of us would have helped Celest take Acknor. We prefer happy villagers.

We didn't want Acknor.

The Serens aren't for world domination. Let Celest and Mag aim for their empires.

We assist Celest because they're not trying to kill us, take from us, taint our forest, kill our fae. They have a common enemy and so we join together and help each other out. It's been said a 100 times. If you're afraid of a war on all fronts, stop ATTACKING everyone. It's simple, really. No one in the SW would start a fight with both Celest and Magnagora at once. It's ridiculous. Magnagora screws everyone over and when their enemies band together, everyone goes to forums and screams bad RP.

Glomdoring's excuse for leaning on Magnagora- Celest and SW are picking on us!

Celest and SW's reason for working together- Magnagora and Glomdoring move against us.

Everyone wants peace. Treaties help. Realistic ones. Something that would go along the lines uf 'STF out of Faethorn' and we'll be fine with that. Magnagora could ease off a bit and there would be no reason for their enemies to join forces to push them back.

Malicia, when I said to Gregori, you can have anything you want, he told his commune it was some trick.


It doesn't matter if Serenwilde wants villages or not, it should not want another empire to exist. When Glomdoring is the weaker of the communities it says, "hmm, we can't get this on our own, so maybe we will try to placate people and get what we can", Serenwilde when its stonger appears to say "hmm, we hate the taint.. anything is better than the taint having power.. DIE TAINT DIE!, who cares if we don't get anything out of the deal"

And that idiotic monolithic shout comming from Serenwilde and not celest is what is most annoying.

Even Hajamin was willing to say, "Oh, I just don't see glomdoring, its not really something to worry about its so small and puny", but not Serenwilde, Serenwilde has to say ALL TAINT MUST DIE!

I don't know why this is so hard to understand. Glomdoring is not moving against Serenwilde. Glomdoring wants treaties or cease fires and Serenwilde is saying no because, like Daganev already stated, in their eyes, Glomdoring MUST be trying to trick them. As far as I am aware, Glomdoring is NOT asking for Magnagora's help. Magnagora is simply giving it to them, probably for the same reasons Serenwilde helps Celest; they would rather see villages going to tainted organizations that will actually help them than non-tainted organizations that won't.

Pretended to have a reason? How about actually had reasons?

Try reading people's histories once in a while, they exist for a reason you know.

You know, I wonder if I'm the only one who has thought about that in a historical sense. Political marriages used to create political alliances that changed the fate of nations are legion throughout history. With the unenemying vow just before it, I found myself having to resist thinking of it in that context.

Of course you two wanted to get married and any political implications are ephemeral and after-the-fact. I doubt anyone would actually go through with an arranged political marriage in a truly historical way -- though, that would rock if someone did actually play that out.

I actually tried to set that up with some Treerippers and Serewilde and Magnagora, but Serenwilde doesn't allow love in their commune with taint, so that ended up poorly.

It wasn't directly specifically at you, Daganev. I honestly haven't paid a ton of attention to what you've done with your character, but now that I recall things like the incidents with Furloch, I know you're an exception to my statement. However, 90% of the (former) leadership still fits it.

That'd be cool, actually. You build up an image of trickery and deception as core values, you pay the price -- being distrusted. But I don't think that's ever really come up that way -- heck, we expect everyone is playing the game, we don't trust anyone, nor expect to be trusted. The obstacle to treaties is that you can't offer "we won't hurt the fae at all" and we can't settle for less -- not some special flavor of distrust just for you.

I'm not trying to imply that people should have joined Glomdoring just to "build up" the numbers of the commune.

I was just commenting that some people seem to believe that no Seren or Celestian could possibly have any reason to join Glomdoring that makes sense, and that no Magnagoran could have any possible reason other than because they want some power and they want to make sure that there's a nice tight Glom-Mag alliance.

It is this mindset, or this combination of mindsets, that I question. I commented only that if you follow this to its natural conclusion, then the Glomdoring consists only of alts and newbies. Which may or may not be better than what it is now. I guess I'm just replying to the people who say "Well, Serens and Celestians should never have joined Glomdoring" by saying "Then where would they come from? It's pretty much a zero-sum game here, except for the alts and the few true newbies"

As for political marriage, that's interesting. In the back of my mind I guess I always did kind of think that's what Amaru and Malicia had going. Mind, I've spied on their snuggle-fests way too often for my taste, but it still seemed almost too convenient. In the end I realize it's a coincedence, and the crazy kids really do like each other, just interesting is all.

Interesting theory Gwylifar, but nah.

And Silvanae, attacking the fae is moving against the Serenwilde. Raiding the Serenwilde..is well, moving against us. If you don't ask Magnagora to help, you most certainly don't send them away. I'm not asking you to. Everyone here wants us to move away from Celest but none of the Seren players are saying that Glomdoring absolutely must move away from Magnagora. I wonder why?


What's even more interesting..and no one has addressed this but, why didn't anyone think it was wrong for Glomdoring and Magnagora to work together to take Rockholm? I didn't scream bad RP. Magnagora gets six villages and there were Glommies helping, and that's okay. Heh. No 200 page threads on how Glomdoring and Magnagora should not help each other.

Round and round we goooooo

It is funny how everyone on market goes "Refilling, no taint please.".
It's been that way since before Glomdoring came out.
And you want me to believe that Serenwilde isn't playing out a "Taint, kill! kill!"?
If not, then you should've started out identifying people as Magnagorans, not tainted.
The only thing that really annoys me, is how noone is willing to admit alot of things, like this alliance between Serenwilde and Celest. What? It happened just a couple of days ago?
heh

If I remember correctly Glomdoring actually didn't want to get Rockholm, but Visaeris did. He was the only guy influencing. We shut down Rockholm, and had Visaeris influence the entire place. Visaeris got a lot of steam for doing that too. We get your point Malicia, but that was just a bad example.

Maybe because its not possible for Magnagora to get Rockholm? So nobody expects a fight over it?

And Gwyl, it was offered that Glomdoring would not touch the fae, and it is possible for Glomdoring to make that offer, because we did. Its called self sacrifice, and Glomdoring is built on that concept.

1 guild out of 3 would have been hurt by that treaty, but they would have just had to suck it up.