I agree very much with this statement and everything else Xavius said in his post. You have ways to gain lessons, and if you aren't actively participating in those aspects of the game that can earn you experience and gold, you're not going to benefit in the form of lessons. If you're primary (or only) goal is to roleplay, then the skills are a background concern or perhaps none at all.

I think the main issuer myself and the other whiners have is that eventually you reach a point where there is very little you can do ICly to improve the abilities of your character.

...maybe instead of spending money on lessons after a certain point (level 50 or 60?) xp gains could be diverted from gaining levels to directly gaining lessons.

Something like... once you hit level 60 you can start *just* gaining lessons and no levels, 5 or 10 lessons for about the amount of xp that it took to go from level 50 to 51.

Something along those lines might be enough to provide a decent source of additional lessons without making them easy enough to acquire that people no longer feel inclined to purchase credits OOCly.

It might promote the purchase of a few credits for some players as a way to get to that point where that option is available?

Thats about an astral creature's worth 5-10 lessons a lobstrosity, yummy

Dude i could trans everything then i would go rebash to get titan and Demigod.

Okay, well, play with the numbers, then. But something along those lines would probably work.

With Lusternia, to be a decent fighter, you need to input a huge amount of credits in skills across the board.

Guildskill 1 - Transcendant
Guildskill 2 - Transcendant
Guildskill 3 - Transcendant
Discipline - Focus Mind
Environment - Tumble
Low/Highmagic - Summer/Tipheret
Combat - Stance Upper
Resilience - Transcendant (if you want to fight warriors as a low con race)
Influence - SuperEgo
Discernment - Potionlist

Compare this to the other IRE realms, where you can get away with:
Guildskill 1 - Transcendant
Guildskill 2 - Transcendant
Guildskill 3 - Transcendant
Survival - Transcendant
Weaponry - Parry
Vision - Adept

And depending on your class, you don't even need all three guildskills transcendant, but can get away with 1 Transcendant, 1 50% Mythical.

Noticed the same thing starting Imperian recently. Odd that.

(But wait, when the hell did you need superego?)

well at least to Divert in Influence for the village revolts. But SuperEgo isn't that much more lessons, so I went to that as a good point to aim for. The huge credit requirement in this game is one of the biggest turn-offs to start playing, and the only reason I am as good as I am is some people lending or giving me credits near the beginning (in excess of 400, though I still owe Marcalo 170).

Come to think of it, you missed planar.

So yes, you're still right, even if you don't need superego. (And divert isn't THAT key, although it is fairly useful.)

Come to think of it I heard Morik ranting about this a lot before but I never really took it on board.

I have been pissed about this since virtually open beta as soon as I looked at the skill lists and worked out costs, and while I think its good business practice if you want to milk as much money as possible out of your customers, I think its a majorly sucky thing if you are on the end of it like we are.

You somewhat amaze me with your view on this subject. Are you an economic liberal when it suits your purpose? This is not an attack; I am just asking this question based on some of the past statements you have made that give the impression that you lean strongly towards the right.

When it comes to the topic about Credits, you seem to want some form of redistribution of wealth. Your suggestion would generate a system where in game credit prices are regulated by the administration. It possibly would redistribute the wealth from those players who support the game with funding and/or volunteer time to those who just spend time playing the game. Do you feel that sort of redistribution would be fair to the former set of players?

Well, let me paint a scenario for you. Let's say that each lesson cost 1000 gold from this mob you mention, now let's say that the credit market is 7000 gold per (not too much of a stretch these days). This would mean that one actually buying credits OOC could sell their credits at market price, and get 7 lessons per AND get around the credit converted limit per RL day. And in order to avoid a situation like the above you'd have to adjust the prices to be like credit market... which would just make it another credit market, thus solving nothing.

It'd probably keep the prices around 6500 for a credit at their peak.

And if someone buys real credits, sells them on the credit market for 7K or more gold to someone who wants the credits for an artifact, then gets 7 lessons out of it... So what? People buying credits OOC will probably see the situation and be motivated to buy more credits, which is what IRE's going for in the first place.

Instead of giving people lessons and credits automatically and providing them with something abuseable, how about just increasing the number of lessons/neocredits people gain via normal means (leveling, uh...)?

Off the top of my head, you can gain roughly enough lessons to trans a single skill till you reach level 100... how about making that so you gain enough for one and a half?

I can agree to that. Perhaps 450 credits worth in both natural lessons and neocredits: 1 trans skill and either half another skill or a little into many of the others. I bet heavy RPers would be happy enough with that while the rest would be wanting to trans most of their skills.

You don't get enough lessons to trans a skill right now I think. Up to fabled, maybe mythical.

yep u get roughly 1100 lessons total without buying a single credit and reaching demigod. I think it takes just over 1200 to trans a single skill.

while i dont necessarily agree with the concept, i do think that if a mob was introduced that sold lessons at a fixed price, wouldn't that limit the inflation of credit prices on the market because people wouldnt buy them to gain lessons? and in that case, wouldnt it solve the problem of people buying credits OOCly and selling them and getting around the daily conversion rate? stil, just a thought

1800, not 1200.

I like the lessons for quests and stuff. Like marks in Materia Magica?

It wouldn't if the credits on market amounted to being cheaper than buying practices. Also, even if the prices matched, you could still sell the credits for 5 gold less, which will sell incredibly fast, then beat the conversion rate.

In any case, the whole fixed lesson idea is a tool to defeat the whole point of Lessons; to get you to buy credits OOGly. That's WHY you can't become powerful without buying credits. The main reason why there's a credit market which lets you grow without paying RL cash is because people will pay ALOT of RL money if they can sell it off for alot more gold. All the fixed price idea does is weaken that whole system.

Remember, if it ends up giving IRE less profits, it's NOT going to happen: They are a buisness after all. It's why I prefer just upping the lessons and neocredits you get. The idea is to put enough to get people involved, but NOT enough to fully satisfy - you can help defend or influence or sell or whatever your fancy, but you still will be lacking against the big boys. You won't be stuck not being able to do anything, but those extra skills that will help ALOT are still out of your reach...unless..

I don't believe it'll put a real hamper on credit sales and might actualy increase the number, especialy since that fighter is that much more involved in fighting and closer to thinking "You know what will REALY help? That artifact I heard about...".