Or maybe they should start ignoring people who talk rubbish.

I sincerely hoped this would be a friutful discussion but since even a Divine feels like disregarding honest suggestions and being insulting through innuendo, why bother?

If someone asks for ideas and certain (sincere)ideas are dismissed out of hand then that is stupid. Seriously all I can say is wtf? There is complaint after complaint about Serenwilde and celest stomping on Glomdoring because it is tainted. Well then remove the freaking taint! If you don't like that idea then drop the subtle acerbic commentary and let discussion continue.



In any event if there really is a problem with Glomdoring then finger pointing isn't going to help. Time after time it has been proven that numbers play as important a part in this game as strategy. If you don't like the idea of de-tainting then take a page from Celest's proven play book. Go into hiding and wait. Eventually those who are beating on you are either going to get tired of it or the Admins will step in and help you out to correct the imbalance.

Sorry for endangering your clique, there.

Ceres, the reason why your suggestion was rubbish is because we've had 5 elections allready replacing people.

This "Clique" you speak of consists of the following people, Tharruk, Ethelon, Lomdomian, Xenthos, Jasper, Nyla, Nayl, Yukari, Etanru, Daganev, Adracunin, Shayle, Aurella, Marsu, Richter. And those are just the people off the top of my head, I could be missing some people.

I was unaware that 15 out of 80 people is considered a clique! Most people just call it "active players"

If Thats a "Clique" I hate to see what you call a couple!

I've not logged on in ages.

That's a good start.

You know, for all that "untaint it" will never happen, I have to admit I can see a very interesting storyline in which it is untainted, and turns out to still be so very dark and grim that its role in the world really doesn't change significantly. All it ends up being is breaking the link between "tainted" and "infested" -- making infestation its own entirely unique thing.

The roleplay possibilities of getting from "we're tainted, but we pretend we're not" to "gee, I guess we were, but we're not anymore" and not really changing tone, still being dark, murderous, nasty, and above all, macabre.... well, I think they'd make for a pretty cool twist.

Ah, well. Maybe that'd make for a nice bardic, since it clearly ain't happening here.

That may be a nice twist, but it completly destroy the concept of Taint being an important part of the Basin, just as Magnora is an important aspect of creation.

It will go from understanding the difference between Building and Destroying as two possitive aspects of creation into a world where Up is good and Down is Bad, instead of both UP and Down having good and bad aspects.

And that is the only thing I enjoy about Lusternia, which is why I wanted to be part of Glomdoring in the first place.

No it wouldn't, no more than making Glomdoring not followers of Light would make it meaningless because then only Celest follows Light.

Oh, wait, Glomdoring already doesn't follow Light, and Celest is already the only followers of Light, but Light is still part of the Basin. I think Magnagora is up to the burden of representing Taint.

Moot, though, since it ain't happening. Too big a plot twist even for here.

There is a difference between Light and Taint.

Light is the focus of Celest, Taint is not the focus of Magnagora, the Focus of Magnagora is Transformation and Domination, as expressed by Nil and the Demonlords. Demonlords and Nil Happen to be tainted but Taint is not a philosophy. And the only way people are going to recognize that is if Glomdoring or another place remains Tainted.

How do you like dem apples?

My apologies if my comment earlier came across as flippant or as being something 'off-hand'. I did not post my reasoning before, as I doubted many would bother to read it. Here it is.

Putting ideas like 'untaint it' into practice, while it may be what your character would like to see, would involve fundamentally changing the nature of the Glomdoring, in a manner not currently explainable through RP.

Even the return of a new Creator God (and the Creators are few and far-between) who attempted to un-Taint it would face resistance from Viravain, myself, most of the Commune, most of Magnagora (I'd assume), and plunge the Basin further into war, which is something that I believe would be hugely detrimental to all but a select few players who are heavily into combat.

Given that the intent behind this thread is, I believe, to establish ways to reduce the level of conflict, I feel that it is fair enough to say that such ideas are unreasonable, in this context, and dismiss them.

I do not believe I need to comment on the 'replace the leadership' idea.

Instead of continuing to argue about the damn things, why don't some of you read my post in which I explained the redcaps, slaughs and barghests.

I swear you all ignore anything which might stop you arguing simply so you can whine.

Welcome to the Lusternian Forums?

Unfortunately Marsu hit the nail on the head there. Poor nail.

Let's try this back-to-topic thing once more.

I maybe missed it in between all the rambling, can someone explain to me again why staying out of Faethorn as a first step won't be a good help? And I mean, officially staying out of Faethorn, signing a treaty with Serenwilde that says Glomdoring will stay out and what have you.

I do think it'll give Glomdoring some more breathing space, as I quite clearly remember a large number of Serens in the past say that the main reason why they oppose Glomdoring so much is that they kill fae. And from what I can tell the main frustration on Serenwilde's side comes from having to guard Faethorn day in day out, so maybe they'll be a bit more willing to not oppose us out of a matter of principle so fiercely if we put that pressure off them.

Sadly you are correct. I do not believe many will read it. I'd like to claim exception from that kind of mentality but I'd be a liar. Considering the amount of antagonism that occured in game and out when even a small section of Glomdoring was untainted before I believe your reasonings are right on the mark.

I would like to examine Gwylifar's point though with a couple of thoughts and questions. We assume that an untainted Glomdoring would be the same as a pre-taint Gloriana. Why? We have seen two examples thus far in game what can occur when something is de-tainted. Either it is 'restored' like when a demon lord is converted into a supernal (also briefly some small sections of Glomdoring). Or it 'recovers' like Virvain did. We all know that Virvain's recovery is quite different from a restoration. My question being is Virvain still technically tainted? If not, would it be totally off base for Her and her followers to want to recover Glomdoring in Her image?

If Glomdoring were infested in the image of Viravain instead of tainted it lends to the possibility of a whole new dynamic. We are currently trying to divide four factions betwean three concepts. The concepts being Light, Taint, and Nature. Glomdoring is trying to establish it's own identity with an almalgalm of two of these concepts. Instead of blending these two forces into its own unique perspective it is setting itself up as a natural enemy for two other factions. Why not give Glomdoring its own pillar to build on? For lack of a better term call it infestation. In the least it would force an interesting paradigm shift. Serenwilde and Celest would no longer be able to point a finger and scream 'Taint! Kill!' yet as it is still infested they wouldn't be in a rush to jump in its arms either (and vice versa). It would also establish a clear divide between Magnagora and Glomdoring.

Pointless ramblings maybe but I'm trying to brainstorm instead of argue with people.

yes, this clearly seems to be the problem...

There are three concepts but they are not Light Taint and Nature, they are Nature, City, and Taint. A city can be tainted or not, and Nature can be tainted or not.


Lisaera, which post are you refering to?

... the one that already said the barghests/redcaps/slaugh were fae.

Aha! I found it.. apparently I had completely skipped over 2 pages.


If Serenwilde was able to properly see City vs Commune as more important than Taint Vs non-Taint we really wouldn't have this problem. In game, I know exactly why it developed like this, but I didn't realize the manipulation went so far as to affect players' ability to see things in a more complex manner.

I think this is one possible simplification, but it is a minor one. 'City' is not really much of an interesting concept unless it is linked with some unique philosophical drive. In Lusternia the forestals 'hating' cities is very must downplayed, which I am quite relieved about, allowing more reasonable conflict to develop. It's definitely there, but its not overdone.

Light, Taint, and Nature are the three fundamental concepts at this stage, eventually I imagine that will be joined by whatever new element Hallifax and Gaudigach add to the mix. Perhaps Chaos and Order. I'm not sure myself whether Glomdoring is going to be able to develop into a separate force in its own right without falling into the trap of diluting two existing concepts. I default to thinking of it as an alternative 'Nature' that is anathema to the existing one, which will certainly work as the polar opposite of Serenwilde.

One thing that does occur to me is that by creating Glomdoring as a fusion of two different forces in order to establish its character means that subtle differences in perspective are overwhelmed by the more fundamental differences. For instance, let us assume Ackleberry returns as the commune it was, but is totally different to Serenwilde in its acceptance of cities, its view on the Fae (less as beings to be worshipped and obeyed, more as allies to be negotiated with), its view on Taint (less antagonistic, more willing to 'get along' with it), and so on. It doesn't have to be tainted, or follow the Light to have those differences exist and make for interesting conflict. In fact, by -not- being mixed with one of the city forces it allows the culture of both organizations to establish themselves in contrast to one another without being swallowed by something as fundamental as taint vs nontaint. New and interesting points of difference can be developed, rather than devolving politics into two gang warfare.

Just some thoughts... I hope everyone realizes I don't seriously expect or even hope that Glomdoring will become untainted. Nor do I hate its players or its leaders at all, I just get frustrated with the organization's impact on the rest of the game from a conceptual view.

Or, in fact, the reverse being true, as is actually the case.

Perhaps rather than assuming we simply cannot see the complexities in the game, it might be wiser to come to realise that you're missing the forest for the trees.