See, that's the thing. It's all about perspectives. Just like when you post that Gorgaliel thanks you for his cleansing... what does that mean, really? It means that after he was warped by (Elohara, isn't it?) into a new shape, she changed his beliefs also. It is great proof for the Celestians that they are in the right, and no proof at all for Magnagorans, as Gorgulu was corrupted into believing it.

(Though it does make me wonder why a Serenwilder believes the words and thoughts that are planted by a Supernal.)

There is no "My way is right, your way is wrong, this is the way it is." We all can have, and do have, different views on these things.

There's already a topic for arguing philosophy, or one can be created. I don't mean to sound like the Soulless Mod, but I'm interested in hearing what ideas or suggestions people might have for helping the Glomdoring commune get somewhere. I realize that fleshing out our philosophy is an important part of that, but I'd rather not see another umpty-gazillion pages of "The Serenwilde Way is so right! ZOMG are you losers!" "nuh uh!". I can ignore it if it infests only one thread, plus the in-game newsboards, plus a series of long-winded shouts.

I mean, I care about it, but I don't care that much.

I'm not saying you cannot have an opinion. I'm saying that there are some facts that simply cannot be argued:

There are no Fae that reside in Glomdoring on their own without being enslaved. There are Fae in Ethereal Serenwilde. The histories indicate that this is not uncommon as Fae were in both Ethereal Serenwilde, Ethereal Glorianna, and Ethereal Ackleberry. In game since day one of Lusternia, there were some Fae inhabitants in Ethereal Serenwilde that were not related to Mother Moon. Given that the Fae are the natural spirits of Nature and none exist in Glomdoring, it is spiritually void of Nature because it is Tainted.

Furthermore, the poison theory falls short. Butter Sweepease takes honey found in FAETHORN and makes honeycakes IN FAETHORN for Fae. She is loyal to Faethorn and Maeve. She does all the baking. Whereas you can construe that as poison, it is irrational and deluded (much like Viravain, so I guess you could play that up).

Your "facts" are based on the assumption that Redcaps and Barghasts and the like are not fae... but they are.

They are the physical manifestations of the greater spirit, Mother Night. This is not the same thing as a Fae. They cannot exist without Mother Night. The Fae can.

If that candy is made by the person just down the street, intended for everyone on the block, your foisting it on some innocent victim to overwhelm their senses and get them to follow you when they wouldn't otherwise is, in essence, drugging them (not poison, not sure where you came up with that for this discussion).

And we really should get back to the topic here.

Syntax: FAESUMMON BARGHEST
Power: 1 (Master Ravenwood)
This fae is only available to wiccans having taken the night totem. The
barghest is a terrible hound of darkness, whose howl causes enemies that hear
it to become paralyzed. If fed blood by a redcap, the barghest will go into a
bloodlust frenzy and attack an enemy with his horrific bite.

P BARGHEST:
This fae is a sleek black hound-like creature, with long canine teeth and a
muzzle tipped with a wide nose that constantly sniffs the air, scenting for
prey. Though its hind legs are that of a dog, its forelegs end in cruel claws,
their vicious curves black with the congealed blood of past hunts. Its face is
disturbingly sentient, the golden eyes glinting with open malice and pitiless
intellect, while its ears are long and triangular, reminiscent of a bat's, even
while hinting at a bloodhound heritage. A shaggy tail and unkempt mane of
longer fur runs down its back, a lighter grey colour against the black of the
rest of its body. The characteristic growl of a hunter rumbles in its throat,
suggesting a powerful voice awaiting release.

TICKLE FAE:
You tickle a barghest mercilessly!

Not trying to score points one way or the other, just more data for the grist mill.

Meh. Are the redcaps and such bound in shadow? I don't believe so because they are in fact already part of Mother Night. Mother Night was tainted. Are the redcaps therefore tainted? I honestly don't know but it would make no sense if they were since the Fae are resistant to Taint. I leave this up to Lisaera to explain because this is somewhat inconsistent with the histories. More or less, I'd argue that the word 'fae' is used incorrectly here. However, I will say that they are not 'fae' as sprites are 'fae.' There is a difference. I swear we had a conversation about this with Lisaera on GT once, but I forget what was said. I just remember it boiling down to this:

Moon Moon != Fae

Thus, Mother, Maiden, and Crone != Fae

-----

They certainly are Fae-like, but they aren't exactly the same due to their link to Mother Moon.

well I dont mean to be a bugger but if you call redcaps and barghests not fae wouldnt that be the same with calling a crone, mother, and maiden not fae?

None of the barghest, redcap or slaugh are bound in shadows. All of them are referenced as FAE. The slaugh doesn't have "fae" in her description, but is referenced as a fae twice in her AB file. The redcap both is described as a "fae" and referenced as a fae in his AB file.

Naturally, all three of these are summoned with the FAESUMMON verb, and acted on using FAECLOAK or FAERETURN, though these things are more easily chalked up to the coding of the game mechanics. We don't need or want a special case AVATAROFNIGHTTHINGIEMAYBEAFAEMAYBENOTSUMMON REDCAP/

Yep, same deal.

I think you are confusing coherent game mechanics with roleplay/history.

Furthermore, I'd argue your point like this:

An imp is a demon on Nil.

Gorgulu is a Demon Lord on Nil.

Is an imp therefore a Demon Lord? No.

Is Gorgulu a demon? No, he is a Demon Lord, but for the sake of not being overly technical, we can accept the reference that he is a 'demon.'

-----

"Where are you from?"

This is a common expression in the English language that is incorrect because it ends with a preposition that has no object. It, however, acceptable in the american english vernacular. Simply because it is used frequently doesn't make it 'correct.'

Redcaps, slaughs and barghests are fae, they're just insane since Mother Night became tainted. Think of it like this - a pregnant mother is affected by something toxic or takes dangerous drugs, the baby may turn out twisted or with mental problems, without actually being sick because of the toxins or addicted to the drugs itself.

Hey, anyone know how we can save Glomdoring? *smirk*

This fae talk opens an interesting discussion, but lets get back to the real topic, which is us not getting owned all the time.

Withdraw and focus internally. It seemed to have helped with Glomdoring had no interest before except establishing itself from within.

Eh, it's a "kind-of" relationship. A Demon Lord is a kind of demon. Gorgulu is a demon. He just happens to be a lord of them.

Anyway, I'm not trying to conflate history with game mechanics. I'm just saying that, if the intent of the Creators was that the mother/maiden/crone and barghest/redcap/slaugh were not meant to be considered as "fae" then They didn't do a very good job writing their descriptions at least. Which may well be the case, the person that wrote those descriptions might have nothing to do with the ongoing historical/mythological origin of the fae and the various cosmological repercussions of same.

As for me, if the argument is made in some way that "a barghest isn't a fae", especially if this argument is made IC, I'll just say "looks like a fae to me". The summoning command and the fact that it responds to the FAE noun is pure mechanics. But the fact that the Divine wrote, in the creature's IC description "This fae is blah blah blah" seems to imply that they are, IC and with all due repercussions, fae. So the argument that no fae will heed a Shadowdancer without being "enslaved" is wrong.

So then, here's the question. Everything concrete seems to point to the fact that there is, actually something called "taint" and that it's sort of bad. Trees wither up, all the non-insane fae won't go anywhere near it without being enslaved by shadow, and other than one insane Goddess, every Divine being seems to agree that it's, at best, something akin to a "Cancer".

Where do we go without, without becoming Ye Olde Magnagoran Alchemy Shoppe?

Agreed, but there are a few problems. First of all, when we tried to keep to ourselves and focus on internal issues, there were a few people that kept raiding us, so that we could not, and it distracted us. Our novices were scared and confused, totems were hard to get raised, guards were getting killed. We didn't go after villiages for some time, and we -still- got our rear ends handed to us. Not that we could ask for a reprieve, Narsrim, because it wouldn't make sense IC, but seriously, we didn't have enough time to set up. It's like those jerks that rush me in Starcraft after three minutes, when my base is wide open. I -always- lose to that.

The other problem, as we're seeing again, is that we have less power and comms than before. I can't remember an instance where one of the other three places have gone from one or two villages to Zero. It hurts.

I'm not sure that withdrawing now makes sense RP-wise, but we'll see. I'd love to be the hermit commune, but we'd be low on supplies all the time, and I think we'd lose members. We'd certainly not attract any fighters, and we'd keep only those that have no interest in progress.

As has been said a thousand times the fact that Glomdoring is tainted but certain elements refused to realise it screwed you guys. It was a great line of thought RP-wise to include all commers to the Commune. Mechanically it appears to have been suicide. Serenwilde/Clest see you as tainted so they hate you. Denying your tainted state makes Magnagora look at you like your a bunch of morons. Even if you have rejected the denial you are so far in the quicksand you are going to drown.

To appease Daganev yes I wish it had been Gloriana instead of Glomdoring. I believe the conception that Glomdoring was needed to provide a foil for Serenwilde was false. Serenwilde already has two foils in Celest and Magnagora. The entire plot of the Taint Wars sets up City vs. Commune as a conflict/dynamic. Combine this with Taint vs. non-Taint and I believe we could have had a four way dance instead of the two way waltz of stagnant death.

Now as Taint vs. non-Taint seems to be the only road we can travel I suggest the following. Sell your souls to Magnagora. Strip away what ever last little bit of blindness you have towards being tainted and instead embrace it. Yes this means you'll be pounded even more but if you have the patience eventually the balance will shift. You'll get one or two newbs who turn out to be good fighters, another fighter or two will want an RP change and switch sides, and your mid-level players will learn group tactics. The hard times may only be beginning but eventually natural forces will correct them. In a few months you be riding high. Then of course another shift will occure and you maybe on the bottom of the pile again but that holds true for eveyone.

How does wether or not we see the taint or embrace that taint make any difference? Whats going to change? Celest will still hate us. Serenwilde will still hate us? Everything will be the exact same as it was before.

Magnagora is a military city bent on ruling over the basin with the use of the taint. New Celest are a bunch of holy crusaders bent on returning the glory of the Holy Celestian Empire with some pacifists thrown in. Serenwilde is a tribal commune who wishes to restore the basin to the days before the taint. Glomdoring is a MAD i.e. insance commune bent on spreading their 'beauty' about the basin who cant view the taint in their own forests. If Glomdoring embraces the taint you just end up with another Magnagora. If you strip away the taint you end up with another Serenwilde. Neither of which we want.

Bascially Glomdoring needs a Serenwilde. Someone we can leech off of like Celest does.