Unknown2005-07-02 08:31:11
Wasn't this thread started to get rid of demesnes? Does that not count as nerfing them to hell? You dont want to have to use them as much, they make them worse, and make runes equilibrium less.
Sylphas2005-07-02 08:38:19
I want to want a gimpy demesne, I want either a good demesne, or none. Why would you even think of making a primary skillset crap, but justifying it by boosting the tertiary skill?
And runes take balance. And that's a whole 'nother discussion, I'm annoyed at runes, don't get me started.
And runes take balance. And that's a whole 'nother discussion, I'm annoyed at runes, don't get me started.
Unknown2005-07-02 08:48:34
Them why is everyone complaining about Demesne's? You dont want them downgraded cause then they'll suck, the admin -wont- get rid of them, as it's been said before multiple times, yet people consistantly say they want to get rid of them, and post stuff why they should be removed, when it's obvious it wont happen. Making the effect room of them smaller, is not making them crap, it's just shortening their range.
Kaervas2005-07-02 09:02:07
No the point of the thread is to brainstorm ideas on either to get rid of demesnes and replace with something else (which won't happen), or to ditch some of the passive effects and get more active effects (usable outside demesne although maybe stronger inside it) so fighting as a mage actually takes effort. I don't see how nerfing a demesne into crap and giving nothing to replace it achieves much.
Revan2005-07-02 09:07:54
I'm working on a possible solution with Kaervas. I'll post it tomorrow sometime once I've fleshed it out alot. It's in its baby stage.
Shamarah2005-07-02 10:40:21
QUOTE(Shamarah)
I had this idea a while ago to turn demesne passive effects into active effects. Here's how.
Give mages a new "energy" thing. Every few seconds, you gain 1 energy, and the maximum energy you can have would be, say... 5. For 1 energy, you can use one demesne effect - actively. For 2 energy, you could use two effects simuntaeously. And so on, but the effects only work that one time you use them and they work instantly, so you have to keep timing them and using them carefully. Using demesne effects does NOT take balance of any kind - it just consumes energy. This way, you can time and use the effects actively and however you want. It'd also have the side effect of making things like tsunami/typhoon more useful for knocking people out of the trees/sky because you can actually make it happen when you want.
Obviously, some of them (like jellies) would have to be rebalanced if this were done, but... thoughts?
Give mages a new "energy" thing. Every few seconds, you gain 1 energy, and the maximum energy you can have would be, say... 5. For 1 energy, you can use one demesne effect - actively. For 2 energy, you could use two effects simuntaeously. And so on, but the effects only work that one time you use them and they work instantly, so you have to keep timing them and using them carefully. Using demesne effects does NOT take balance of any kind - it just consumes energy. This way, you can time and use the effects actively and however you want. It'd also have the side effect of making things like tsunami/typhoon more useful for knocking people out of the trees/sky because you can actually make it happen when you want.
Obviously, some of them (like jellies) would have to be rebalanced if this were done, but... thoughts?
148180
Revan2005-07-02 10:51:47
Mine's better
Gimme awhile

Shiri2005-07-02 10:52:41
Revan, yours is NOT better. At all. Sorry. 

Revan2005-07-02 10:53:34
Quiet you! I'm revising it.
Shiri2005-07-02 10:58:48
By completely removing the first and third sections, right?
Revan2005-07-02 11:00:52
You'll see
Ceres2005-07-02 13:55:58
I say:
Demesnes should have a sizeable willpower drain, the amount depending on the number of rooms in them.
Demesnes should have a sizeable willpower drain, the amount depending on the number of rooms in them.
Sylphas2005-07-02 17:51:33
Dreamweavers could NOT fight then. They'd almost always be out of willpower. And it would mean you'd have to wait until you got attacked almost to set up a demesne, or you'd be out of willpower by the time you did. A -small- drain, maybe, but anything sizable is insane.
Revan2005-07-02 21:42:33
I've created a new skill for mages. It’s a VERY costly skill, and advancement in it is excruciatingly slow. Each construct requires several different components to make, an extra offering of gold and it takes a very long time to create one. The creator must perform a very specific ritual, and if the creator messes up, all items and money spent on the creation are lost and he must start over. Once finished, however, the construct will obey the creator's commands, including combat support. The construct remains with the creator at all times, but may be ordered by the mage to guard a certain area or do other specific things. Along with these, mages have an empathic link to their construct, allowing them to see what their construct sees and hear what is being spoken in the construct's room. The way golems are controlled is by use of specific commands via tells, being that the mage has a telepathic link to their construct. The mage would only be able to send tells to his specific golem, as he would never be able to communicate with another’s construct. Aside from normal pet commands, the golem has specific commands that it follows. Commands are as follows: TELL GOLEM ATTACK (person) orders the golem to attack your target, using whatever available attacks it has. The set timer for golem attacks would most likely be 6-7 seconds. TELL GOLEM DEFEND would set the golem to defend itself, reducing the damage it takes significantly, but also making it so that it doesn’t attack. TELL GOLEM SCOUT would be somewhat like dreamform, in that you’d control the golem’s movements. Note, however that you cannot set the golem to attack. It would only be able to move, and thus is vulnerable to attacks from your foes. TELL GOLEM GUARD would set the golem to guard the room it is currently in and attack your personal enemies. Note that this command would work while it is scouting, though it will put your perspective back to your main character. Once set in guard mode, the mage must go to the golem and order it to move by TELL GOLEM ACTIVE. This command also sets the golem to follow you wherever you go. All golems have the ability to detonate via a magical detonation device implanted inside them. TELL GOLEM DETONATE will cause the golem to be destroyed, dealing damage to everyone who is in the same room as the golem. Note, however, that due to the telepathic link the mage has, that the mage is also dealt a significant amount of damage and is stunned for a few seconds. They may only have ONE construct, and if they wish to make a different one, their current construct must be sacrificed, losing all material components and gold used to make it. Constructs also have a magic resistance of 3, though other elements can harm them depending on their type. With that, here's the skillset and their details.
Construction:
Flesh Golem: Create a being made of flesh
-- Components will be discussed later. An offering of 50,000 gold must be made. Construction time is 5 minutes. Does blunt damage with a stun attack. Cut vulnerability of 3, blunt vulnerability of 2, fire vulnerability of 1, very fast equilibrium gain, very fast balance gain.
Taint Golem (geomancers): A creation of mud and dirt held together by the powers of the Taint.
-- Components will be discussed later. An offering of 60,000 gold must be made. Construction time is 10 minutes. Afflicts enemies with various diseases with its tainted touch (pox, anorexia, sickening, vapors) with blunt damage. Blunt resistance of 1, cut resistance of 1, poison resistance 3, vulnerability to ice 2, slow equilibrium gain.
Water Golem (Aquamancers): A being made from the purest waters.
-- Components will be discussed later. An offering of 60,000 gold must be made. Construction time is 10 minutes. Freezes enemies with an ice attack, and also does a knockdown attack (ice damage). Blunt resistance 1, cut resistance 1, fire vulnerability 3, slow balance gain.
Ent (Hartstone/Blacktalon): Summon the mighty Tree Shepherds of old.
-- Components will be discussed later. An offering of 60,000 gold must be made. Construction time is 10 minutes. Afflicts opponents with asthma, does cut damage and very occasionally sap (hartstone) or blacklung (blacktalon). Blunt resistance 2, cut vulnerability 2, fire vulnerability 2.
Psionic Golem: An ethereal golem that feeds off the minds of their prey.
-- Components will be discussed later. An offering of 70,000 gold must be made. The construction time is 20 minutes. This golem afflicts opponents with mind debilitating effects (stupidity, confusion, dementia, hallucinations, etc.), can do a psychic damage attack and even send pre-set illusions to the opponent’s mind (for example: Revan sets a supersling illusion into the golem. One of the golem’s attacks could be that illusion.) Ice resistance 1, lightning resistance 2, poison resistance 1, physic resistance 3, blunt vulnerability 1, cut vulnerability 2
Stone Golem: A golem made from stone.
-- Components will be discussed later. An offering of 80,000 gold is required and the construction time is 20 minutes. Slow, but strong and hard to hurt with weapons. Does pure physical blunt damage. Blunt resistance 1, cut resistance 2, slow balance gain.
Iron Golem: The ultimate construct
-- Components will be discussed later. An offering of 200,000 gold must be made and construction time is 30 minutes. This is the ultimate construct. Very difficult to harm, and it packs a punch. Does pure physical cut damage. Cut resistance of 3, blunt resistance of 3, vulnerable to fire 1, vulnerable to electricity 3, vulnerable to cold 2.
This is an -extremely- rough draft of my idea and is open to suggestions. If you toss out demesne effectsand add in more active spells, then I believe this idea would be feasable. Comment away.
Construction:
Flesh Golem: Create a being made of flesh
-- Components will be discussed later. An offering of 50,000 gold must be made. Construction time is 5 minutes. Does blunt damage with a stun attack. Cut vulnerability of 3, blunt vulnerability of 2, fire vulnerability of 1, very fast equilibrium gain, very fast balance gain.
Taint Golem (geomancers): A creation of mud and dirt held together by the powers of the Taint.
-- Components will be discussed later. An offering of 60,000 gold must be made. Construction time is 10 minutes. Afflicts enemies with various diseases with its tainted touch (pox, anorexia, sickening, vapors) with blunt damage. Blunt resistance of 1, cut resistance of 1, poison resistance 3, vulnerability to ice 2, slow equilibrium gain.
Water Golem (Aquamancers): A being made from the purest waters.
-- Components will be discussed later. An offering of 60,000 gold must be made. Construction time is 10 minutes. Freezes enemies with an ice attack, and also does a knockdown attack (ice damage). Blunt resistance 1, cut resistance 1, fire vulnerability 3, slow balance gain.
Ent (Hartstone/Blacktalon): Summon the mighty Tree Shepherds of old.
-- Components will be discussed later. An offering of 60,000 gold must be made. Construction time is 10 minutes. Afflicts opponents with asthma, does cut damage and very occasionally sap (hartstone) or blacklung (blacktalon). Blunt resistance 2, cut vulnerability 2, fire vulnerability 2.
Psionic Golem: An ethereal golem that feeds off the minds of their prey.
-- Components will be discussed later. An offering of 70,000 gold must be made. The construction time is 20 minutes. This golem afflicts opponents with mind debilitating effects (stupidity, confusion, dementia, hallucinations, etc.), can do a psychic damage attack and even send pre-set illusions to the opponent’s mind (for example: Revan sets a supersling illusion into the golem. One of the golem’s attacks could be that illusion.) Ice resistance 1, lightning resistance 2, poison resistance 1, physic resistance 3, blunt vulnerability 1, cut vulnerability 2
Stone Golem: A golem made from stone.
-- Components will be discussed later. An offering of 80,000 gold is required and the construction time is 20 minutes. Slow, but strong and hard to hurt with weapons. Does pure physical blunt damage. Blunt resistance 1, cut resistance 2, slow balance gain.
Iron Golem: The ultimate construct
-- Components will be discussed later. An offering of 200,000 gold must be made and construction time is 30 minutes. This is the ultimate construct. Very difficult to harm, and it packs a punch. Does pure physical cut damage. Cut resistance of 3, blunt resistance of 3, vulnerable to fire 1, vulnerable to electricity 3, vulnerable to cold 2.
This is an -extremely- rough draft of my idea and is open to suggestions. If you toss out demesne effectsand add in more active spells, then I believe this idea would be feasable. Comment away.
Geb2005-07-02 21:51:17
QUOTE(Revan @ Jul 2 2005, 10:42 PM)
I've created a new skill for mages. It’s a VERY costly skill, and advancement in it is excruciatingly slow. Each construct requires several different components to make, an extra offering of gold and it takes a very long time to create one. The creator must perform a very specific ritual, and if the creator messes up, all items and money spent on the creation are lost and he must start over. Once finished, however, the construct will obey the creator's commands, including combat support. The construct remains with the creator at all times, but may be ordered by the mage to guard a certain area or do other specific things. Along with these, mages have an empathic link to their construct, allowing them to see what their construct sees and hear what is being spoken in the construct's room. The way golems are controlled is by use of specific commands via tells, being that the mage has a telepathic link to their construct. The mage would only be able to send tells to his specific golem, as he would never be able to communicate with another’s construct. Aside from normal pet commands, the golem has specific commands that it follows. Commands are as follows: TELL GOLEM ATTACK (person) orders the golem to attack your target, using whatever available attacks it has. The set timer for golem attacks would most likely be 6-7 seconds. TELL GOLEM DEFEND would set the golem to defend itself, reducing the damage it takes significantly, but also making it so that it doesn’t attack. TELL GOLEM SCOUT would be somewhat like dreamform, in that you’d control the golem’s movements. Note, however that you cannot set the golem to attack. It would only be able to move, and thus is vulnerable to attacks from your foes. TELL GOLEM GUARD would set the golem to guard the room it is currently in and attack your personal enemies. Note that this command would work while it is scouting, though it will put your perspective back to your main character. Once set in guard mode, the mage must go to the golem and order it to move by TELL GOLEM ACTIVE. This command also sets the golem to follow you wherever you go. All golems have the ability to detonate via a magical detonation device implanted inside them. TELL GOLEM DETONATE will cause the golem to be destroyed, dealing damage to everyone who is in the same room as the golem. Note, however, that due to the telepathic link the mage has, that the mage is also dealt a significant amount of damage and is stunned for a few seconds. They may only have ONE construct, and if they wish to make a different one, their current construct must be sacrificed, losing all material components and gold used to make it. Constructs also have a magic resistance of 3, though other elements can harm them depending on their type. With that, here's the skillset and their details.
Construction:
Flesh Golem: Create a being made of flesh
-- Components will be discussed later. An offering of 50,000 gold must be made. Construction time is 5 minutes. Does blunt damage with a stun attack. Cut vulnerability of 3, blunt vulnerability of 2, fire vulnerability of 1, very fast equilibrium gain, very fast balance gain.
Taint Golem (geomancers): A creation of mud and dirt held together by the powers of the Taint.
-- Components will be discussed later. An offering of 60,000 gold must be made. Construction time is 10 minutes. Afflicts enemies with various diseases with its tainted touch (pox, anorexia, sickening, vapors) with blunt damage. Blunt resistance of 1, cut resistance of 1, poison resistance 3, vulnerability to ice 2, slow equilibrium gain.
Water Golem (Aquamancers): A being made from the purest waters.
-- Components will be discussed later. An offering of 60,000 gold must be made. Construction time is 10 minutes. Freezes enemies with an ice attack, and also does a knockdown attack (ice damage). Blunt resistance 1, cut resistance 1, fire vulnerability 3, slow balance gain.
Ent (Hartstone/Blacktalon): Summon the mighty Tree Shepherds of old.
-- Components will be discussed later. An offering of 60,000 gold must be made. Construction time is 10 minutes. Afflicts opponents with asthma, does cut damage and very occasionally sap (hartstone) or blacklung (blacktalon). Blunt resistance 2, cut vulnerability 2, fire vulnerability 2.
Psionic Golem: An ethereal golem that feeds off the minds of their prey.
-- Components will be discussed later. An offering of 70,000 gold must be made. The construction time is 20 minutes. This golem afflicts opponents with mind debilitating effects (stupidity, confusion, dementia, hallucinations, etc.), can do a psychic damage attack and even send pre-set illusions to the opponent’s mind (for example: Revan sets a supersling illusion into the golem. One of the golem’s attacks could be that illusion.) Ice resistance 1, lightning resistance 2, poison resistance 1, physic resistance 3, blunt vulnerability 1, cut vulnerability 2
Stone Golem: A golem made from stone.
-- Components will be discussed later. An offering of 80,000 gold is required and the construction time is 20 minutes. Slow, but strong and hard to hurt with weapons. Does pure physical blunt damage. Blunt resistance 1, cut resistance 2, slow balance gain.
Iron Golem: The ultimate construct
-- Components will be discussed later. An offering of 200,000 gold must be made and construction time is 30 minutes. This is the ultimate construct. Very difficult to harm, and it packs a punch. Does pure physical cut damage. Cut resistance of 3, blunt resistance of 3, vulnerable to fire 1, vulnerable to electricity 3, vulnerable to cold 2.
This is an -extremely- rough draft of my idea and is open to suggestions. If you toss out demesne effectsand add in more active spells, then I believe this idea would be feasable. Comment away.
Construction:
Flesh Golem: Create a being made of flesh
-- Components will be discussed later. An offering of 50,000 gold must be made. Construction time is 5 minutes. Does blunt damage with a stun attack. Cut vulnerability of 3, blunt vulnerability of 2, fire vulnerability of 1, very fast equilibrium gain, very fast balance gain.
Taint Golem (geomancers): A creation of mud and dirt held together by the powers of the Taint.
-- Components will be discussed later. An offering of 60,000 gold must be made. Construction time is 10 minutes. Afflicts enemies with various diseases with its tainted touch (pox, anorexia, sickening, vapors) with blunt damage. Blunt resistance of 1, cut resistance of 1, poison resistance 3, vulnerability to ice 2, slow equilibrium gain.
Water Golem (Aquamancers): A being made from the purest waters.
-- Components will be discussed later. An offering of 60,000 gold must be made. Construction time is 10 minutes. Freezes enemies with an ice attack, and also does a knockdown attack (ice damage). Blunt resistance 1, cut resistance 1, fire vulnerability 3, slow balance gain.
Ent (Hartstone/Blacktalon): Summon the mighty Tree Shepherds of old.
-- Components will be discussed later. An offering of 60,000 gold must be made. Construction time is 10 minutes. Afflicts opponents with asthma, does cut damage and very occasionally sap (hartstone) or blacklung (blacktalon). Blunt resistance 2, cut vulnerability 2, fire vulnerability 2.
Psionic Golem: An ethereal golem that feeds off the minds of their prey.
-- Components will be discussed later. An offering of 70,000 gold must be made. The construction time is 20 minutes. This golem afflicts opponents with mind debilitating effects (stupidity, confusion, dementia, hallucinations, etc.), can do a psychic damage attack and even send pre-set illusions to the opponent’s mind (for example: Revan sets a supersling illusion into the golem. One of the golem’s attacks could be that illusion.) Ice resistance 1, lightning resistance 2, poison resistance 1, physic resistance 3, blunt vulnerability 1, cut vulnerability 2
Stone Golem: A golem made from stone.
-- Components will be discussed later. An offering of 80,000 gold is required and the construction time is 20 minutes. Slow, but strong and hard to hurt with weapons. Does pure physical blunt damage. Blunt resistance 1, cut resistance 2, slow balance gain.
Iron Golem: The ultimate construct
-- Components will be discussed later. An offering of 200,000 gold must be made and construction time is 30 minutes. This is the ultimate construct. Very difficult to harm, and it packs a punch. Does pure physical cut damage. Cut resistance of 3, blunt resistance of 3, vulnerable to fire 1, vulnerable to electricity 3, vulnerable to cold 2.
This is an -extremely- rough draft of my idea and is open to suggestions. If you toss out demesne effectsand add in more active spells, then I believe this idea would be feasable. Comment away.
148316
So to make the best golem, an investment of at least 200k gold would have to be made. Also, this golem though resistant to damage can still be destroyed by it. Therefore, you are talking about giving mages/druids extremely expensive entities that could be easily destroyed by a group of enemies. I don't know about anyone else, but I find this idea to not be well thought out. It would be an extremely inefficient and expensive means of combat.
Revan2005-07-02 22:05:23
So make comments on how you would change it. Read last paragraph.
Amaru2005-07-02 22:13:38
I think Revan's demesne ability should be removed. And then Revan turned into a golem.
Manjanaia2005-07-02 22:16:41
And then a group such as the one Geb mentioned should be set to pound on said golem until it shatters rendering it useless. 
Seriously though, that idea sounds too risky, expensive and complicated to be worth negating 3 quarters of a mages attacks.

Seriously though, that idea sounds too risky, expensive and complicated to be worth negating 3 quarters of a mages attacks.
Marsu2005-07-02 23:37:08
When you took note of all of this and decided to add new skills to mages. It did just slip your mind that Druids are kinda mages too, right? Please? Come ooooooon 

Elryn2005-07-03 00:26:28
Its a good try, but it doesn't appeal to me personally. I think it would only suit mages, not druids.
I'm also not sure how it would fix demesnes... or does it just replace them?
I'm also not sure how it would fix demesnes... or does it just replace them?