My point was not everyone has the means to purchase OOC credits so this idea that we should HAVE to because it is our 'duty' or some kinda BS should be dropped.

As Geb mentioned, I'd love to see a healthier amount of ooc credit purchaces myself, because that's whay city/commune/guild credits are based on. One of the first things I did when I took over Celest was lower prices to make them more accessible to the average and casual player, but I haven't been able to put them up for sale every IG year just because we often have so little they'd run out almost immediately and kill the whole point of them being so accessible to the citizens. Most of the really hardcore players probably bought the majority of their credits back during the open beta sales when they were most affordable. That was about the only time I made significant purchases, and it only makes sense from the consumer standpoint to buy them while they're on sale and when your character is new to get the bonus lessons.

I'd really love to be able to buy more myself with real money, but, as others have mentioned, this being a leisure activity and all, it can't be a priority for most people, and ooc creds are relatively expensive. Sure, if you buy a ton of them they approach roughly 30 cents or so each, but considering you need thousands to trans out everything or get a few artifacts.. that really adds up. I was pretty much out of work for 4 months during the winter, and despite my best attempts to line up jobs and use every contact I could to remain employed (being a self-employed sub-contractor) I barely scraped by that time and mostly paid rent by selling old junk on ebay (and by that meaning giving up collectible things that were my childhood hobbies) and borrowing a bit. I ended up somewhat miserably in debt and am to this day still catching up on overdue utility bills. As of writing this, my electric company is threatening to shut me off tomorrow. I just today was able to put some cash in my accounts and pray that I'll be able to arrange a deal with them tomorrow morning before they go through with it. The irregularity of when I recieve payment for my work, not being someone who gets a steady check once a week or so tends to put me in odd places, and having food on my table and basic utilities to be able to even get online has to come first. As it is, I make this my main hobby, when I'd really love to have money for my other interests or to just get out more and socialize with the real world in general.

Poor and lacking in some skills as I am, I still have a passion for the game, and I'd like to see more people getting skilled and enjoying themselves and all that. I'm really not sure if cheaper city/giuld creds is the answer. It certainly can't hurt. I don't know what numbers IRE runs off of, what their budget is. I'm not entirely sure what the corporate philosophy is on sales, as they probly run more on demand than supply, being that there's almost no limit to how many credits they could sell. They're not a physical commodity like gold or something. But then, I'm just a semi-broke, semi-employed, semi-educated, semi-alcoholic schlub who's here killing time till he gets his life together enough to have some more meaning and interest besides what a ficticious character can accomplish in a glorified chatroom. I don't know what the overhead cost is. I don't know what the point is. I'd just like my kingdom back and a hot time now and then, even if it's just pretend. Actually, I want far far more than that, but that's all I'll expect from Lusternia for now.

It is not your duty, but your idea of entitlement is far more along the lines of BS than anyone suggesting that you actually help support the very business you gain so much enjoyment from.

Where did I say anything about entitlement? I just said you cant expect people to buy credits OOC because not everyone has the means.

They can not also expect us who do support the realm with money or volunteer time to be supportive of them having an easier means of acquiring credits, just because they can't afford to buy them OOC. Also, there are other ways of making credits via volunteer work, so really they should not really expect any sympathy from those who do support the realm in one fashion or another. That is what I mean about this idea of entitlement. The idea that just because you play, you should have the same or even more opportunities as the players who play and help support the realm.

Hi, Geb. I have bought credits, supported the realm, blah de blah, and I have no complaint about having cheap guild/city/commune credits available. This means I have the same opportunities to make credits as anyone else, on top of what I paid for, so I'm still ahead. I'm not quite sure where you're getting this thing about those who don't pay being better off than those who do- they can't make very many in any reasonable amount of time, but a little bit is better than none.

While you're essentially right, Geb, you're acting a bit superior right now.

They can play. Play until they have the gold needed to purchase the credits in game they desire. They can join the Bardic contests. They can seek to become a guide. Request the opportunity to become mortal builders. There are plenty of ways to help the realm, via direct financial support or by defraying costs via volunteer work.

Okay. And all that is being suggested is that the gold needed to purchase credits is lowered to around 2,000.

"They can play. Play until they have the gold needed to purchase the credits in game they desire." So they can earn... up to a maximum of 5 (10 if there are two sales going on at once) per day at the cheaper rate, which is put on hold whenever there are none available. So, maybe, they can earn 20 per IC year this way, if they're LUCKY, paying 40,000 gold.

For some, 40,000 gold a week is a decent amount... for others it's not very much. Those others will have plenty of gold to piddle around with on the credit market at inflated prices, buy stuff they need, etc, but the poorer can still afford some advancement. Again, I see nothing wrong with this... if you want a lot of credits to massively improve your character, you still have to buy at an insane price, use OOC money, or one of those other ways you keep talking about- cheaper credits will be rare, they just make life a little easier. For everyone.

When did I make any mention of this at all? Did I say that because I cant buy OOC credits I should be entitled to cheaper credits IC?

As far as those who buy credits and those who dont. There is no distiction between them in game. Just because you buy OOC credits doesnt mean you are entitled to anything in game except those credits.

You implied it by answering my post based around the subject of credits and game support. Your last statement is true, and I have never said anyone who purchases credits OOC should be given any special consideration. This whole thread is based around ideas of making it easier to acquire credits in game, so the discussion about giving special consideration to people who support the game via OOC means has not even been brought up.

Geb, you miss the point completely.

This is not about making it easier to get cheap credits in game.

The concept was to make the world look more appealing to new players.

Again, this has NOTHING to do with the credit market, this is about Guilds and Cities, and the free credits that those organizations get.

My "theory" is based on the observations I was surprised to find in my guild, we have had an increased number of people staying in the guild and buying OOC credits.


However, since credits are probabbly the last factor that plays into a person staying in the game, I thought discussing it and figuring out what happens would make it easier for us to figure out how to make Lusternia as good as we can make it.

I'm curious the difference between the Celestian credit policis and Moondancers and Ur'guard are. I have my suspiciouns that the Celestians have a system that make it fairly easy for a person to aquire those credits while other places have a slightly more complicated method.

You know Geb you were talking about supporting the game and all of us would if we could but some can't. And i know that in order to get more money to lusternia we need more people and in order to get that we need to make it so that they don't look at the credit market and get scared off. I see where your coming from, and i respect you for your die hard dedication the Lusternia, but lets say we got credits at 4k each which is a fine price and maintain it. Newbies that come will look at it and see that its not impossible to buy credits in game and hell most people have to play a while to buy credits. I do not know to many that make a new char an dump money into it. I hope that makes sense i am running off redbull here.

Nothing complex in the Moondancers - and anyone who can read ghelps can know this, so I'm not giving anything away - we just have a list of people who have asked to be offered guild credits and we sell credits in groups of 5, going down the list in chronological order. We were selling at 2500 last time I checked.

If my memory doesn't fail me, on the last aquamancer sales when I was still on the guild the high majority of the credits sold went to "experienced players" and very few of them to novices. Why? Because they had the money and read the news/ghelp files to purchase them (novices seem allergic to reading).
So we weren't getting much more involvement from new players, but strenghtening the bounds with already old guildmates.
On the other hand, I think many guilds have contests about scrolls and the like, with prices ranging from gfs, to gold and credits. A bit of time is all it takes to help your guild and get you credits for a living.
And I think in my entire lusternian career I bought like... 100 or 200 credits. When I left the game I donated like 300-400 to my friend, and I never bashed in astral. So yes, it can be done, you can get many credits just working for them.

Good point...

Thus I got an idea for the idea forums