Shiri2005-07-12 02:36:27
QUOTE(daganev @ Jul 12 2005, 03:31 AM)
You think people will give others 100K gold just to remove thier curse?
I think currently you need closer to 500K to do it by gold.
I think currently you need closer to 500K to do it by gold.
151639
It'd be 10k, and that's if the blessing cost 100% to remove.
Drathys2005-07-12 03:10:40
As far as I can see, the increasing credit prices are only a symptom of the real problem, that being an unbalanced economy.
What we have in lusternia, is a base income (from bashing) that stays basically static in a given level range. The problem with this is the economy has shifted towards those who bash in the astral plane, whose bashing income is disproportionate to that of people who bash other places.
What this leads to, is inflation based mostly on the purchasing power of the "astral-bashers", with others having to work much harder/longer to raise equivalent funds. Because the income levels are static, and not influenced by inflation, the gap between the "haves" and the "have nots" will continue to increase.
The severity of this situation is increased by the fact that, paridoxically, credits are necessary in order to be able to bash astral, yet you need to be able to bash astral in order to effectively buy credits.
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I think the ideal money sink is one that scales in price somehow depending on the wealth of the character. That way, it doesn't effect the poor much, but those with large bank balances pay much more.
The trouble is in finding a product or service that is sufficiently vital to all players, such that they must purchase it regardless of price, and does not have an adverse effect on player trade.
While I would prefer not having artificial controls on the economy, it is important that some system is put in place to counter the ever-increasing inflation we get through having an unlimited number mobs dropping gold.
While not the best solution, and one that is definitely artificial, one way to reduce the level of gold in the game would be to introduce some form of tax based on a percentage of total wealth. This could possibly be implemented as a mandatory tribute to the divine, and would fulfill both the criteria of increasing cost versus wealth, and also of necessity.
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(Please excuse the ramblings of someone who has only done high school economics, and whose understanding is running from a rather shoddy memory.)
I have ignored fluctuation due to supply and demand in the credit market, as well as the purchase of OOC credits, in order to focus on IC cause and effect.
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I have also managed to end up combining what could really be two posts into one . Apologies for the epic length, I was bored and had too much spare time...
What we have in lusternia, is a base income (from bashing) that stays basically static in a given level range. The problem with this is the economy has shifted towards those who bash in the astral plane, whose bashing income is disproportionate to that of people who bash other places.
What this leads to, is inflation based mostly on the purchasing power of the "astral-bashers", with others having to work much harder/longer to raise equivalent funds. Because the income levels are static, and not influenced by inflation, the gap between the "haves" and the "have nots" will continue to increase.
The severity of this situation is increased by the fact that, paridoxically, credits are necessary in order to be able to bash astral, yet you need to be able to bash astral in order to effectively buy credits.
-----
I think the ideal money sink is one that scales in price somehow depending on the wealth of the character. That way, it doesn't effect the poor much, but those with large bank balances pay much more.
The trouble is in finding a product or service that is sufficiently vital to all players, such that they must purchase it regardless of price, and does not have an adverse effect on player trade.
While I would prefer not having artificial controls on the economy, it is important that some system is put in place to counter the ever-increasing inflation we get through having an unlimited number mobs dropping gold.
While not the best solution, and one that is definitely artificial, one way to reduce the level of gold in the game would be to introduce some form of tax based on a percentage of total wealth. This could possibly be implemented as a mandatory tribute to the divine, and would fulfill both the criteria of increasing cost versus wealth, and also of necessity.
-----
(Please excuse the ramblings of someone who has only done high school economics, and whose understanding is running from a rather shoddy memory.)
I have ignored fluctuation due to supply and demand in the credit market, as well as the purchase of OOC credits, in order to focus on IC cause and effect.
-----
I have also managed to end up combining what could really be two posts into one . Apologies for the epic length, I was bored and had too much spare time...
Unknown2005-07-12 03:16:28
Weird thing you came up with. How would you measure 'total wealth'? If it's total gold I possess, I'm just gonna spend it on credits whenever I'm about to hit this higher tax rate.
Drathys2005-07-12 03:23:22
QUOTE(Kashim @ Jul 12 2005, 03:16 PM)
Weird thing you came up with. How would you measure 'total wealth'? If it's total gold I possess, I'm just gonna spend it on credits whenever I'm about to hit this higher tax rate.
151658
It was really just an example, and wouldn't work without more refining.
The idea was to find a way to remove gold from the economy in such a way that it affects those with large amounts of gold, and not so much those with a pittance.
Unknown2005-07-12 03:40:48
Well i been pondering this a while and came to the cunclusion that the only way prices will surely go down is if the big credit buyers and sellers meet and set a price. Just like the igits and the oil. The reason gas is so high is because we need it and they know we will buy, credits are high because peoepl need lessons and will buy. The only flaw is that they are not somethign that makes or break you like gas therefor stop buying for a while and let the big guys have a meetign and set a price and then you buy if unhappy don't buy. or thats my take on it
Drathys2005-07-12 03:58:52
QUOTE(SuperFrog @ Jul 12 2005, 03:40 PM)
The only flaw is that they are not somethign that makes or break you like gas therefor stop buying for a while and let the big guys have a meetign and set a price and then you buy if unhappy don't buy.
151666
Unfortunately, those who can't purchase credits OOC, rely on these credits for lesson gain (outside those earned by levelling). They are make or break.
If you can't afford the credit market prices, you can't progress.
Acrune2005-07-12 03:59:37
The problem it, it takes one person, who is able to remain anonymous, to break an agreement and ruin any price progress that has been made.
Personally, I'm tired of all this whining about credit prices. Just enjoy the game with what you're able to do. With the current credit prices, it could really be something to be proud of to become a decent fighter without any ooc money help. Fuel yourself off of that. To bash astral, the only skill you really need is link. You may be slow at bashing for a while, but as far as I see, you dont 'need' any skills beyond that. Just kill one creature at a time, and be careful.
Personally, I'm tired of all this whining about credit prices. Just enjoy the game with what you're able to do. With the current credit prices, it could really be something to be proud of to become a decent fighter without any ooc money help. Fuel yourself off of that. To bash astral, the only skill you really need is link. You may be slow at bashing for a while, but as far as I see, you dont 'need' any skills beyond that. Just kill one creature at a time, and be careful.
Unknown2005-07-12 04:34:26
That's hardcore.
Revan2005-07-12 10:00:21
Actune, it'd take someone who doesn't bash astral a LONG ass time to get the credits to get that high in Planar, expecially bashing on prime. No dice
Unknown2005-07-12 11:30:43
I think the credit market itself should be eliminated. Force people back to the old way of selling credits, direct person to person. Credits sold for approximately 2k to 2.5k in Aetolia before the introduction of the credit market. Once it was introduced, it quickly shot up into the 4k range. The credit market simply made it to easy to move credits, whereas otherwise, you actually had to advertise a low price in order to find a buyer.
Another problem with the credit market system, is it doesn't actually remove gold from the economy. There should be a 5%-10% tax on credit sales (perhaps with the percentage scaling down if you grouped the credits together, and they sold as a cheaper bulk set), to completely remove a small portion of gold from the economy with each sale. Another idea I thought of, would be to put in a deposit, a percentage of the total price of all the credits you have up for sale, that you have to put down. If the credits were not sold in a day (or maybe even as short as a few hours), they would be pulled off the credit market, placed back in your inventory, and you would lose your deposit, otherwise, once they sold you'd regain it. This would help reduce the prices.
Another problem with the credit market system, is it doesn't actually remove gold from the economy. There should be a 5%-10% tax on credit sales (perhaps with the percentage scaling down if you grouped the credits together, and they sold as a cheaper bulk set), to completely remove a small portion of gold from the economy with each sale. Another idea I thought of, would be to put in a deposit, a percentage of the total price of all the credits you have up for sale, that you have to put down. If the credits were not sold in a day (or maybe even as short as a few hours), they would be pulled off the credit market, placed back in your inventory, and you would lose your deposit, otherwise, once they sold you'd regain it. This would help reduce the prices.
Unknown2005-07-12 12:26:10
QUOTE(Revan @ Jul 12 2005, 05:00 AM)
Actune, it'd take someone who doesn't bash astral a LONG ass time to get the credits to get that high in Planar, expecially bashing on prime. No dice
151736
It's true Revan, but I managed it. It was long and painful, though.
Guild/City credit sales helped a lot. That and neocredits gained from leveling up.
Acrune2005-07-12 14:51:39
QUOTE(Revan @ Jul 12 2005, 06:00 AM)
Actune, it'd take someone who doesn't bash astral a LONG ass time to get the credits to get that high in Planar, expecially bashing on prime. No dice
151736
I managed it too. Besides, it just makes bashing astral that much sweeter when you have to work for it.
Unknown2005-07-12 15:04:47
QUOTE(Acrune @ Jul 12 2005, 09:51 AM)
I managed it too. Besides, it just makes bashing astral that much sweeter when you have to work for it.
151774
This is also true, but I'm afraid some people might perceive gaining credits to go to Astral as "work" instead of "enjoyment." The game should be enjoyable and not feel like work. This doesn't mean that those who invest more time into the game shouldn't be rewarded properly though. Trying to balance out the work/enjoyment with reward is the tricky part in any kind of long-term, online game.
Richter2005-07-12 18:09:47
QUOTE(Anonymous @ Jul 12 2005, 03:30 AM)
I think the credit market itself should be eliminated. Force people back to the old way of selling credits, direct person to person. Credits sold for approximately 2k to 2.5k in Aetolia before the introduction of the credit market. Once it was introduced, it quickly shot up into the 4k range. The credit market simply made it to easy to move credits, whereas otherwise, you actually had to advertise a low price in order to find a buyer.
Another problem with the credit market system, is it doesn't actually remove gold from the economy. There should be a 5%-10% tax on credit sales (perhaps with the percentage scaling down if you grouped the credits together, and they sold as a cheaper bulk set), to completely remove a small portion of gold from the economy with each sale. Another idea I thought of, would be to put in a deposit, a percentage of the total price of all the credits you have up for sale, that you have to put down. If the credits were not sold in a day (or maybe even as short as a few hours), they would be pulled off the credit market, placed back in your inventory, and you would lose your deposit, otherwise, once they sold you'd regain it. This would help reduce the prices.
Another problem with the credit market system, is it doesn't actually remove gold from the economy. There should be a 5%-10% tax on credit sales (perhaps with the percentage scaling down if you grouped the credits together, and they sold as a cheaper bulk set), to completely remove a small portion of gold from the economy with each sale. Another idea I thought of, would be to put in a deposit, a percentage of the total price of all the credits you have up for sale, that you have to put down. If the credits were not sold in a day (or maybe even as short as a few hours), they would be pulled off the credit market, placed back in your inventory, and you would lose your deposit, otherwise, once they sold you'd regain it. This would help reduce the prices.
151743
Hrm, I've never gone without a credit market. It would be interesting to see what effect it had on the game.
Unknown2005-07-12 18:11:37
I think that now that people know they can get at least 6K, for a credit, they'll demand it.