Richter2005-07-11 23:02:07
I think you're getting away from the point of the credit market, which is to buy and sell credits. This isn't the "let's try and get prices reduced and neocredits implemented for novices on a non-essential commodity" market.
Unknown2005-07-11 23:03:26
QUOTE(Kashim @ Jul 11 2005, 04:49 PM)
Yet, when manses were introduced, credit prices went down quite a lot for some time.
151495
Credit prices were low for quite some time before manses, too. I don't remember when Manses came out, but if it was at all relative to the time that we came out of open beta, well, everyone got 75 credits, and lots of people were trying to sell those, too. And Lusternia's playerbase *was* bigger back then.
Gwylifar2005-07-11 23:24:05
QUOTE(Ye of Little Faith @ Jul 11 2005, 06:58 PM)
Regular credits could be bought and sold via TRANSFER CREDITS TO PLAYER FOR GOLD.
151514
Hence all the stuff I said about neocredits or an in-between-kind.
Before manses, the credit market had gotten up to 4500 or so. They dropped it to 2000 or so at the lowest, then it took a long time for it to creep back up. The thing is, most of the people who wanted big manses have them now, or are only expanding them slowly. Manses as a major gold sink have run their course. We need something else like that... hopefully something more sustainable.
Unknown2005-07-11 23:33:24
QUOTE(Richter @ Jul 11 2005, 06:02 PM)
I think you're getting away from the point of the credit market, which is to buy and sell credits. This isn't the "let's try and get prices reduced and neocredits implemented for novices on a non-essential commodity" market.
151517
It's not a non-essential commodity. Lusternia's design inherently DEMANDS credits. If you want to tell me otherwise, I can't help but believe you're ignorant. It's to the point where I'm probably just going to start ignoring your posts - because it's all bias and rabble in some sad attempt to protect what my knee-jerk philosophy calls corporate propoganda and mental trash.
You purpousely and intentionally drive credit prices up, out of your own self-interests. And it's just human nature. But for the rest of us, it's just not cool. And none of that's a personal attack - it's pure statement of fact.
Roark2005-07-12 00:09:28
QUOTE(Rhysus @ Jul 11 2005, 12:32 PM)
This is an interesting solution, but isn't this essentially what's happening already, albeit more transparently? I mean, won't we just see a Walmart scenario play out, wherein someone who can afford to undercut or outbid everyone else by larger margins will still be able to control the ebb and flow of the market?
151308
No, it is more like the stock market, where you have bids and offers, and when the two meet, a deal strikes. If Walmart went to a central market where Target and other retailers were also there all making offers to a bunch of customers, of whom all are making bids, then it'd be analogous to my idea.
EDIT: I misread. Note that Wal-Mart controls the market by keeping prices low. The moment they raise prices, they lose control. This is known as a non-coersive monopoly (though I hestitate to call Wal-Mart a monopoly yet) because they really can't truly control the market since once they raise prices, competition creeps in to undercut Wal-Mart (assuming low barriers for entry and exit within the market). That would apply here. Anyone who tries to control the credit market with undercutting will lose that control once they stop undercutting since there is very minor barriers for entry into and exit from this market. Similarly, if there was bidding ability, someone trying to do a "pump and dump" control of the market by bidding up demand would lose control of the market once he tried to dump his stockpile of credits at the higher price he caused by his buying.
Unknown2005-07-12 00:10:47
I think the idea is at least worth trying out.
Roark2005-07-12 00:15:48
QUOTE(Estarra @ Jul 11 2005, 11:51 AM)
Actually, Roark had an idea of having people bid for credits rather than (or in addition to) putting them on the market. In other words, people could put up 10k gold (or whatever) for X credits and those with credits can then choose to make the sale.
151298
And IRE shot it down due to code complexity and more important priorities on their plate. (They publish that piece of code, which means I can't touch it.)
Unknown2005-07-12 00:23:49
QUOTE(roark @ Jul 12 2005, 10:15 AM)
And IRE shot it down due to code complexity and more important priorities on their plate. (They publish that piece of code, which means I can't touch it.)
151566
Le sigh.
It couldnt be -that- hard, surely.
Unknown2005-07-12 00:57:22
QUOTE(Quidgyboo @ Jul 11 2005, 05:23 PM)
Le sigh.
It couldnt be -that- hard, surely.
It couldnt be -that- hard, surely.
151568
Most likely it's not so much hard as completely unimportant to them.
Furthermore, the credit market doesn't need to be changed. It works well, as an actual coded system. The problem Lusternia is facing is inflation, and moneysinks need to be added to remove the excessive currency, as well as slowing the production of money.
Unknown2005-07-12 01:08:10
What does Richter actually do to inflate prices? Does he come to a credit market with 50 credits all at 6K, buy them *all* and then resell at 6.5K.
Or does he wait until someone tries to artificially lower credit prices by selling 20 at 4K when they're clearly worth 6K and buy the 20 at 4K then resell them at the 6K they're actually worth?
Because if it's the second one all he does is speed the inevitable. Just putting 20 credits out at 2K less than they're really worth won't keep the prices down unless you buy credits OOC and sell them at such a volume that they're actually only worth 4K now.
Also, I'm sure Richter isn't the only player with the business sense to try that second one. Just the only player who has publicly admitted to doing it.
What about crazy karma for gold offerings? 1 karma at 100 gold, or something. So you could go from 0 to 100 karma for a cool 10K? Sure, curses and blessings would be flying around like candy, but a lot of money would get disappeared.
And if we could get some NPCs selling herbs and refills at high prices then one of two things would happen.
1) Players would dump a bunch of money on that stuff, goldsink
2) Herbalists and Alchemists would get it together not only undercut the NPC merchants but make an effort to be equally available.
Or does he wait until someone tries to artificially lower credit prices by selling 20 at 4K when they're clearly worth 6K and buy the 20 at 4K then resell them at the 6K they're actually worth?
Because if it's the second one all he does is speed the inevitable. Just putting 20 credits out at 2K less than they're really worth won't keep the prices down unless you buy credits OOC and sell them at such a volume that they're actually only worth 4K now.
Also, I'm sure Richter isn't the only player with the business sense to try that second one. Just the only player who has publicly admitted to doing it.
What about crazy karma for gold offerings? 1 karma at 100 gold, or something. So you could go from 0 to 100 karma for a cool 10K? Sure, curses and blessings would be flying around like candy, but a lot of money would get disappeared.
And if we could get some NPCs selling herbs and refills at high prices then one of two things would happen.
1) Players would dump a bunch of money on that stuff, goldsink
2) Herbalists and Alchemists would get it together not only undercut the NPC merchants but make an effort to be equally available.
Shamarah2005-07-12 01:12:20
QUOTE(Tamaranis @ Jul 11 2005, 09:08 PM)
What about crazy karma for gold offerings? 1 karma at 100 gold, or something. So you could go from 0 to 100 karma for a cool 10K? Sure, curses and blessings would be flying around like candy, but a lot of money would get disappeared.
151582
That would be absolutely retarted, people could keep 4-5 (or more) blessings like that just from bashing Astral.
Rakor2005-07-12 01:14:40
People already can keep 4 blessings from bashing Astral.
Unknown2005-07-12 01:15:32
Yeah? Well maybe if I think up enough terrible gold sinks it'll provoke someone into coming up with a good one.
Or maybe just make reasonable karma for gold donations and nerf Astral and Gorgog gold like has been suggested repeatedly?
It's pretty bad when the people making the gold complain that they're making too much and it needs to be fixed. (Thorgal)
Or maybe just make reasonable karma for gold donations and nerf Astral and Gorgog gold like has been suggested repeatedly?
It's pretty bad when the people making the gold complain that they're making too much and it needs to be fixed. (Thorgal)
Unknown2005-07-12 01:15:38
QUOTE(Visaeris Maeloch @ Jul 12 2005, 10:57 AM)
Most likely it's not so much hard as completely unimportant to them.
Furthermore, the credit market doesn't need to be changed. It works well, as an actual coded system. The problem Lusternia is facing is inflation, and moneysinks need to be added to remove the excessive currency, as well as slowing the production of money.
Furthermore, the credit market doesn't need to be changed. It works well, as an actual coded system. The problem Lusternia is facing is inflation, and moneysinks need to be added to remove the excessive currency, as well as slowing the production of money.
151574
Unless you have an idea for sustainable money-sinks, that won't work. We can't keep adding things like manses every time the credit price gets too high.
...well I spose we could actually, but still.
Shamarah2005-07-12 01:16:34
Bashing constantly, maybe. But what that person suggested would allow something like 6-7 blessings, likely. Or, if they offered most of their gold, all 9.
Daganev2005-07-12 01:24:15
Making gold worth a bit more than its value in essence might actually be a good idea...
Unknown2005-07-12 01:25:56
QUOTE(Tamaranis @ Jul 11 2005, 08:08 PM)
What does Richter actually do to inflate prices? Does he come to a credit market with 50 credits all at 6K, buy them *all* and then resell at 6.5K.Â
Or does he wait until someone tries to artificially lower credit prices by selling 20 at 4K when they're clearly worth 6K and buy the 20 at 4K then resell them at the 6K they're actually worth?
Because if it's the second one all he does is speed the inevitable. Just putting 20 credits out at 2K less than they're really worth won't keep the prices down unless you buy credits OOC and sell them at such a volume that they're actually only worth 4K now.
Also, I'm sure Richter isn't the only player with the business sense to try that second one. Just the only player who has publicly admitted to doing it.
What about crazy karma for gold offerings? 1 karma at 100 gold, or something. So you could go from 0 to 100 karma for a cool 10K? Sure, curses and blessings would be flying around like candy, but a lot of money would get disappeared.
And if we could get some NPCs selling herbs and refills at high prices then one of two things would happen.
1) Players would dump a bunch of money on that stuff, goldsink
2) Herbalists and Alchemists would get it together not only undercut the NPC merchants but make an effort to be equally available.
Or does he wait until someone tries to artificially lower credit prices by selling 20 at 4K when they're clearly worth 6K and buy the 20 at 4K then resell them at the 6K they're actually worth?
Because if it's the second one all he does is speed the inevitable. Just putting 20 credits out at 2K less than they're really worth won't keep the prices down unless you buy credits OOC and sell them at such a volume that they're actually only worth 4K now.
Also, I'm sure Richter isn't the only player with the business sense to try that second one. Just the only player who has publicly admitted to doing it.
What about crazy karma for gold offerings? 1 karma at 100 gold, or something. So you could go from 0 to 100 karma for a cool 10K? Sure, curses and blessings would be flying around like candy, but a lot of money would get disappeared.
And if we could get some NPCs selling herbs and refills at high prices then one of two things would happen.
1) Players would dump a bunch of money on that stuff, goldsink
2) Herbalists and Alchemists would get it together not only undercut the NPC merchants but make an effort to be equally available.
151582
He does both.
Unknown2005-07-12 01:35:45
Well, if he does the first extensively then the system works, Richter is broken.
If we switch all Manse stuff to costing gold instead of credits it might fix him, since he'll have something to do with his near limitless money rather than manipulate the credit market to make yet-more money.
If we switch all Manse stuff to costing gold instead of credits it might fix him, since he'll have something to do with his near limitless money rather than manipulate the credit market to make yet-more money.
Gwylifar2005-07-12 01:55:33
Karma for gold offerings is a bad bad bad idea because it again renders karma meaningless, like the old buy-corpses-for-karma thing did before it was fixed, only even worse.
Daganev2005-07-12 02:31:13
You think people will give others 100K gold just to remove thier curse?
I think currently you need closer to 500K to do it by gold.
I think currently you need closer to 500K to do it by gold.
