I can't remember who it was, but a high-ranking American offical, perhaps several, admitted to using torture and justified it by asking if we would rather one person suffer or have dozens die from a bomb, for example.

I'd rather one suffer, but does that make it ok? No.

Coming away from America, Australia has yet to be taken to task for the crimes committed against our ingidgenous population. Localised genocide did occur, babies were taken from their parents and raised in the 'correct' (white) way, their culture was desecrated and destroyed almost absolutly. As much as it would shame my country to have our own human rights violations looked at, I would like to see some media attention on that for a change.

John Stewart is a Libritarian who runs a comedy show, who for some unknown reason, some people take seriously...

I'm not sure if he's the smartest man or not, but Dean told him he needs to have a larger audience base so that people can learn the truth. At which point John Stewart had to remind the Head of the DNC that he runs a FAKE news comedy program.

To what end and with what outcome?

Searching for some info but the net is running slow. I'll get back with quotes/sites soon.

EDIT:

Biased, I admit, but it is a start until I can get these news sites working.
http://www.amnestyusa.org/amnestynow/tortured.html

umm Quotes won't answer my question... I ment to what end do you want to "bring Justice"? What will the be outcome of these investigations where its very clear that people did really nast things?

Are you able to locate the families who were affected and compensate them? Will Australia still exist after you are done with these investigations?

For example.. In South Africa, such things were done and a new country was made (to the extent that they renamed anything that sounded 'white' or 'dutch'), in Germany, who kept good records, families who were stolen from were compenstated if they were able to prove they were the family the records indicated.. In the U.S. small chunks of land were given autonomy and tax "compensations" were made... To What end?

I didn't mention justice, I think we are passed the time when justice can be done. I just want it brought up and discussed, instead of being hushed away on the ABC and SBS (non-commercial television stations) where it occasionally comes up but is ignored by the vast majority.

To the end of doing the right thing.

And what is the right thing?

Its like here in the U.S. with the Universties... They preach so much of how white people have had a easier life in America than others, that now instead of teaching tolerance and acceptance, they teach how all white males are the devil. This type of activity is just getting out of hand... I just heard (30 seconds ago) that the BBC now won't even call the people who blew up the trains "terrorists."

If you don't think about the direction and ramifications of what your doing, your just going to make a mess for everyone. I feel like we are on the brink of entering another dark age.


To me it sounds like that in order to fix a man's pinky, your willing to take off the fingers of 10,000 people.

It seems to me we've been in the dark ages since January of 2001. It all began with the inauguration of a slack-jawed idiot whom will surprise half the U.S. and the rest of the world if he could spell nuclear - nonetheless pronounce it correctly.

And, I've neever heard of any *white* teachers in U.S. universities preaching how we're the devil. For the most part, white college professors are some of the most liberal people I've ever met.

You should come to my school then...

Here is the quote from my professor on the first day of class this past year... "Hi everyone, I realize a class on culture diversity comming from a balding white male with glasses may seem counter productive, but let me tell you, some of us white males recognize the role our kind has played as oppressors"

Could you imagine soemone comming to class and saying "Hi everyone, I realize a class on science comming from a black man may seem counter productive, but let me tell you, some of us blacks were lucky enough to be born with brains."


I can understand your irrational hatred for a single man who comes from a culture different from yours, but this problem started long before 2001, it just was never really cared about because all it affected was Television and a few workplaces.


I don't think you realize how Judgemental and biggoted "Liberals" are...

ESPECIALLY of people who live between Nevada and Pensilvania.

Jeez, I like your professor. Gasp, you mean to say a WHITE person thinks the WHITE U.S. is waging a war it doesn't belong in? That it might be, gasp, oppressive?

I guess slavery, the nazi regime, the hundred years war, the domination of the roman empire all were not a good enough example for you of how white people are dominating and oppressive? Hot damn.

And, for the record, "Liberals" are those whom fight the good fight, and who have your best interests at heart. Their INTENT is for you, I, and every other living breathing person to have the FREEDOM of choice. I'm sorry if we seem deluded and wrong and some people are fighting the good fight in the wrong way - our intentions are pure. We want everyone to be able to say "I want an abortion" or "I want to be a raving lunatic southern baptist" or "If I'm born gay, I'm gay!" or "I think being gay is gross, and a sin against my God. I think it's a choice - but it's their choice." They're fighting to make sure those people are treated exactly as we want to be treated - fairly, equally. Irrelevant of partisan arguements or standings, irrelevant of ethnic backgrounds or socialogical ideals.

I know a lot of them are grossly wrong in their arguements - some of them are stark raving mad, and have more than just a bit of foam and spittle on the corner of their lips while they're condemning the "conservative bastards" who're responsible for "that mess in Washington." Not all of us are so ignorant and wrong. And I find it sad that you're using a broad brush to paint Liberals. It's like with Republicans - I honestly believe Fred Phelps has the best intentions at heart. He truly believes faggots are going to Hell, and that God wants him out there saying this. I'm sure there's a positive side to him - he's devoted, irrelevant of the public's opinion. He's steadfastly devoted to the Bible, all of it, not just parts of it.

Doesn't change the fact he's a horrible, disgusting old man who strikes hatred from so many, but can only manage pity and sadness from me. Not all Republicans, truly, are wrong - I know many of them feel it's a moral issue of abortion or the life at conception/birth. And, honestly, I believe life starts at conception - and I've no problem knowing it's been taken. Because, sometimes, death truly is a blessing, in the face of a life of torment and agony.

But that's all tangent to the issue. My point is, okay, some Liberals can be over the top. Somewhere along the lines, the intent and meaning of the word "Liberal" and what we stand for, has been lost.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...5070801776.html

See, this is what happens when you use "celebrity" power correctly, instead of just going on any tv program and ranting against your country.

Hold on. Are we looking at the same article?



I can see the positive influence he's using there. God forbid we, gasp, HOPE.

See, thats a racist comment.

Pol Pot was opressive and not white, Ghengis Khang (not white), Ottomon Empire (not white), The leaders in South america that I don't know the names of, (Not White), the Leaders of the Tribes in Africa that caused the genocide in Rhowanda (Not White).

For every opressive white male, there is an oppressive non white, non male.



Let me explain the basic fundemental difference between Democrats and Republicans in America, in the way I see it.

Democrats want to create Government funded programs that help people who they label as being "opressed" in some form or another. These programs are Free for the "folk" and paid for by the "community".. What this means from an economic perspective (for what else is there when people can not agree on what is moral and what is religion and what is secular) is that it is in the best intrest and incentives for the people who work at these programs to always have people who need help. They keep thier jobs if the Government gives them money for helping more people. They more people they declare are unable to help themselves, the better off they are in thier own lives. For a government paid social worker, the more people who are failures, the more success they can have in thier own lives.

Republicans want to be able to have thier own personal money in thier own hands. They want to build a company as succesfully as they can, and they want to be able to do whatever they want with thier land. So while they are less likely to give thier money over the government, their way of life improves only if wealth as a whole increases and more and more people become self suffcient. As those with drive and persevirance rise up, they increase their own ability to be compettive and help drive the economy so that they have more wealth to improve thier quality of life. They will also help out their friends in hopes that thier friends help them.


Basically, the way I see it, the "Liberals" have run out of people to find opressed and are now turning anything that was once called a "challenge" and renaming it "inequality." There is an increased movement to even remove the whole ability for a doctor to label someone "sick" because "sick" implies they arn't worth as much, and they need to be "healed" as apposed to just being "different"

This "good fight" you talk about is not helping anyone but the people who are in charge of the "masses". Because its clear that Liberals find the massess to be a bunch of idiots, that anyone who is not with them is a brainwashed anti education biggot. I may use the word 'liberal' as an insult, but I don't call liberals 'immoral, or stupid, or idiotic, or subhuman, or call them murders or terrorists as if people can't tell the difference between a Thief and a Cop.

When you stop using infamitory and hatefull speach, then maybe I can believe that there is some "good fight" that is going on.

Oh sorry, I'll just post the email I got that linked to that article..


Dear Friend:

This is a big thank you to all 1.5 million of you who joined together as ONE to do something extraordinary.

From the 500,000 letters you sent to President Bush to Live 8 in Philadelphia to the G8 Summit in Gleneagles, you called on eight men to do more to fight global AIDS and extreme poverty, and they heard your call. In Scotland this past Friday, overcoming the shadow of a tragic day in London, President Bush joined G8 leaders in an unprecedented deal to cancel debts and double aid to Africa.

For African nations fighting poverty and corruption, this means a $25 billion increase in aid and wiping out 100% of their debts. With this funding, Africa can halve deaths from malaria, put millions of children into school, and 10 million people across the world will have access to lifesaving AIDS drugs. Behind each of these numbers is one person, one life that will be changed forever.

For the first time ever, everyday Americans like you joined together to take a seat at the negotiating table, asking the world's most powerful leaders to do more to help the world's poorest people. Because you signed the ONE Declaration, wore the white band and forwarded emails to friends about ONE, you made a huge step toward making poverty history. We've come so far and still have far to go.

Keep the momentum going, email 3 friends about ONE today.

This agreement is a real victory for Africa - but promises made of words will only become promises for a generation if we keep watching, asking and acting. Much more needs to be done in Washington DC to turn these commitments into lifesaving programs, and the world must take new steps to make trade fair. More meetings will take place this year in New York and Hong Kong where a comprehensive debt-aid-trade deal can be reached and end global AIDS and extreme poverty in our time.

We can be that great generation. As ONE, let's keep up the positive pressure and make 2005 the year we joined together to make history.

Thank you,

The ONE Team

P.S. You can learn more about the details of the G8 deal by checking out the ONE.ORG G8 page.


I'm sorry all you can do is focus on the negitive.

Sigh, I'm too tired to go into it anymore. I feel like I'm talking to a wall.

You cannot tell me that, as history has shown time and time again, republican ideology as far as economics goes works. I'm sorry, but I'm strongly against the Government telling me what I can and cannot do. Especially when it comes to my own life, my own body, my own money. You're right, liberals do want heavy taxes. Because, if you lost your job because some republican corporate thug was found out to be laundering millions of dollars and embezzeling millions more, and now you're out of a job. Be happy us liberals'll be helpin', eh? Liberal administrations generally work for the over-all more than the individual - while still working for the individual. Simple as that.

I don't focus on the negative details - I know quite well what G8 was about, what it was for, what went on, what's been going on, all of that amusing and entertaining things. But I'm at work, and the first thing I pick up, where generally the topic of the article is, are lines about how Bush is further destroying our environment. Do you care if your child grows up to have severe asthma and lung cancer from the various pollutants in the air?

I won't go so low as to say you obviously don't - because I'm sure you do. No self-respecting parent wouldn't. But, in all honesty, we're also talking about the summit were other countries were donating a much higher percentage in relation to their GDP, than we are. Much, much more. Of course, you probably think they're leftists and knee-jerkers and biggots and whatever other slander you seem so keen on nailing to anything leftward leaning, just as I slam anything I view as too far to the right.

I havn't seen any clear indication that a Republican or Democratic government affects the economy all that much. I have however seen the affects that an overly liberal system has on a place such as California.

Sectors that have little government regulation seem to strive and grow, and sectors that have TONS of government regulation appear to be getting worse every year with littel signs of improvement in the future.

Again, the philosphy appears to be to cut off 10,000 fingers inorder to heal one pinky.


Just take a simple look at the language used by "liberals" to describe George Bush and Red State Americans, and tell me its not biggoted?

Okay. So our serious debt right now has nothing to do with our republican leader cutting back the major source of federal income, and then giving more of it away? How about when Clinton (A left-central president) was operating in the black? How about Reagan nearly destroying anything resembling value in the U.S. dollar? I can't say Daddy Bush did a whole lot of good, either. Of course, you'll probably tell me it was Reagan and Bush's policies that had us operating in the black when Clinton was in power, and how Clinton only screwed it up for Bush - irrelevant of the 3 trillion he's spending on his wars and whatever, while taking in like ten bucks.

And California is ran with an extremely left social policy, while republicans do seem to manage power (Governor Ahnold, anyone?) The system isn't pure liberal. I'm no foremost expert on Cali's economics (I live in the Boneyard. I could tell you about our's...), but I've been given the impression it's a fairly right-central economic policy.