I'm an old achaean veteran, looking to join all you lovely folks in Lusternia. Anyways, i've been pondering which class I will be, and I'm fairly interested by both the Nihilists, and Blacktalons. My ultimate decision however, will rely heavily on which classes has more intense, complex forms of combat.

I suppose I'm asking all of you for opinions. Which classes do you think are the most complicated to fight with, and why?

If you want complex go Nihilist or ShadowDancer with Astrology. The ShadowDancers are better for Astrology than Nihilists though. Infact, any class with Astrology is complex...

Speaking from pure ignorance (I don't have anything but a Magi) and I think that guardians are the most complex to fight.

Correct me if I'm way off on this, but they have to choose what afflictions to invest their angel/demon with, which tarots to use (assuming they take Tarot), and a variety of other skills in Rituals.

By comparison, warriors choose their poisions and body parts to hit, and the rest is chance, and mages set up their demeses before hand and decide which Rune/mote/Psionic combo to use in between the passive demesne effects.

That's my 2 cents.

Oh yes. I forgot about Astrology. I don't know much about it, but Estarra says it's the most complicated skill there is.

Each class is complex really if you take them to their full potential. For instance Geb does a hell of alot of things as a Aqua, where other fighters basicly staffcast in a demesne. Warriors can do savage damage and seem 1d, but they can also be setting up a few wound combos on the side. Or they can go speed knight and set up wound combos ECT. Anyways, All classes can be as complex as the person wants them to be, its really based on how willing you are to come up with new things. Ofcourse Go Nihilist because we simply are better then all.

I think warriors are the most complex honestly...

36 offensive aliases...

Though you could probably get away with 18

Oddly enough, you hit the nail on the head with your first two choices, the Blacktalon and Nihilist guilds are indeed the most complex to fight as.

Nihilists are pretty complex mainly due to their instakills, sacrifice is one of the most stylish and effective ways to kill the best, but only if you're really good at it. Their other main instakill requires the target to be roped/transfixed/webbed and be below 50% mana, which is rather tricky with skills like tipheret and summer that instantly burn off bonds, and small size races writhing free in less than two seconds.

Blacktalons are tricky to fight as because their cudgel (staff) damage, quite frankly, sucks the shizzles, because it's 100% cutting damage, even though it dominates for bashing. So instead of just staffing your target over and over untill it drops dead, you have to make use of your tertiary skillsets, and skills like sap (permanent aeon untill you scrub) and scarab (periodical, uncurable anorexia).

Send me a PM if you like a skillset list and AB's for all of Lusternia's guilds.

I got 6, works just fine.

Guardians (Nihilists and Celestines) are probably the most complex to play offensively because you rely on active tactics and stuff.

Knights, on the other hand, have the hardest time curing because they have few passive effects unless you count wound affs.

Guardians is a pretty awesome class to play as, I'd say. A lot more interesting to fight as one, in addition to all the benefits conferred with whichever Secondary skillset you pick. Nihilist is pretty powerful, so are Celestines, Blacktalon is fun I heard, but if you don't like laying down effects like Mages did with Crystallism in Achaea, I wouldn't pick it.

Thank you, everone, for the replies! Based on this input, I have chosen to go Nihilist!

actually id say speed warriors are the most complex because they're more randomized. Also you track more things as a warrior, like you have to take note of how they parry, have to take note of how they stance, have to time their rebound, have track what they're curing, have to track how their healing their limbs, have to track their limb states, etc.

This is opposed to a guardian where mostly all you track with your opponent is what they're curing. So you can come up with a combo set your entity with the proper afflicts then execute. If planned combo doesnt work then rinse and repeat or try another combo. Less factors to consider though this makes them efficient in what they do.

Note im not saying warriors are more fun to play with and all thats more of an opinion.

Being a speed warrior is also rather frustrating at times, since you're only doing 90 damage a jab..

id say warriors are the hardest class to play as unless your a major credit whore

i disagree, you can be a damn good knight with just trans resilience + guildskills and a good forged set of weapons

Agreed. All you need is lunge/crush.

hahaha ceres, funny thing you are.

you need a LOT more than lunge/crush to be a good knight, especially as a speed bonecrusher

or as any type of knight, and murphy what i meant was that people like me cant compete with other knights because theyve bought credits etc as there is too bigger gap between normal knights and the arti credit whoring ones

I must had been using my lunges wrong all this time then.

Oops. Pinleg is two above lunge.

My mistake.

I dislike this assumption that I meant "all you need to win every time you fight is.."

Don't be a smartass.