Unknown2005-07-18 15:34:19
Dude... Spindle was the one who was rude and unprofessional about it IMO. First, this is what I found on HELP ADMIN file:
They are not Gods, though they have many powers of Gods and a broad
mandate to handle violations of laws, harassment, PK, thievery, and other
things related to customer service. Unlike Gods, they have no role-playing
function: they are there solely to deal with customer service, primarily
through the ISSUE system.
That being said, let us review the conversation:
Just because he's the administration doesn't mean that he shouldn't be able to make you do everything. Sure, we respect them, listen to them and cooperate with them, but if we believe something is wrong, we should have the right to voice that opinion. Richter, respected him, listened to him, and cooperated with him, politely, with valid points. Spindle had the attitude of a burned out guy who wanted to get his job done and move on to his next assignment.
They are not Gods, though they have many powers of Gods and a broad
mandate to handle violations of laws, harassment, PK, thievery, and other
things related to customer service. Unlike Gods, they have no role-playing
function: they are there solely to deal with customer service, primarily
through the ISSUE system.
That being said, let us review the conversation:
QUOTE
You tell Mister Spindle, a Fate Guide, "Not trying to be rude, but in "ok names", part two, it allows for a dictionary word, if it is not silly nor offensive, correct?"
He is polite there.
Spindle tells you, "Your name is silly, if you argue this further, I will force the change."
Spindle told Richter to read the HELP NAMES file, and Richter proved Spindle to be incorrect.... And Spindle decided to abuse admin power by saying "No, it's wrong, change it now."
You tell Mister Spindle, a Fate Guide, "Silly? I take offense to that!"
As would I.
Spindle tells you, "When admin asks you to do something it is wise to do so, to argue does nothing but annoy us."
Aren't admin supposed to enforce the rules? The rules say that his name is valid. Or does the administration MAKE the rules? His statement also sounds EXTREMELY unprofessional. Richter is a customer, and you don't say to your customer, "Okay, you're pissing me off." You can deal with customers if he/she is making trouble, but Richter is simply making a valid argument.
You tell Mister Spindle, a Fate Guide, "And I suppose that since my name has been declared unsuitable, I need to think of a suitable one... right now."
You tell Mister Spindle, a Fate Guide, "That's a difficult task. I mean, your
name is your name, and I can only do this once, so what if I mess up and pick a
stupid name? My entire life could depend on the conversation we're having.
Imagine if I grow to be a great warrior, and my name is recorded in the annals
of history as Great warrior, Snodgrass, The Master Swordsman?"
It's a valid point.
Mister Spindle, a Fate Guide says, "Ok, I'm sick of the sillyness."
Mister Spindle, a Fate Guide says, "No more remarks, change the name."
Mister Spindle, a Fate Guide says, "My next action will be to remove you."
Spindle again gets pissy because Richter isn't submitting to his power.
He is polite there.
Spindle tells you, "Your name is silly, if you argue this further, I will force the change."
Spindle told Richter to read the HELP NAMES file, and Richter proved Spindle to be incorrect.... And Spindle decided to abuse admin power by saying "No, it's wrong, change it now."
You tell Mister Spindle, a Fate Guide, "Silly? I take offense to that!"
As would I.
Spindle tells you, "When admin asks you to do something it is wise to do so, to argue does nothing but annoy us."
Aren't admin supposed to enforce the rules? The rules say that his name is valid. Or does the administration MAKE the rules? His statement also sounds EXTREMELY unprofessional. Richter is a customer, and you don't say to your customer, "Okay, you're pissing me off." You can deal with customers if he/she is making trouble, but Richter is simply making a valid argument.
You tell Mister Spindle, a Fate Guide, "And I suppose that since my name has been declared unsuitable, I need to think of a suitable one... right now."
You tell Mister Spindle, a Fate Guide, "That's a difficult task. I mean, your
name is your name, and I can only do this once, so what if I mess up and pick a
stupid name? My entire life could depend on the conversation we're having.
Imagine if I grow to be a great warrior, and my name is recorded in the annals
of history as Great warrior, Snodgrass, The Master Swordsman?"
It's a valid point.
Mister Spindle, a Fate Guide says, "Ok, I'm sick of the sillyness."
Mister Spindle, a Fate Guide says, "No more remarks, change the name."
Mister Spindle, a Fate Guide says, "My next action will be to remove you."
Spindle again gets pissy because Richter isn't submitting to his power.
Just because he's the administration doesn't mean that he shouldn't be able to make you do everything. Sure, we respect them, listen to them and cooperate with them, but if we believe something is wrong, we should have the right to voice that opinion. Richter, respected him, listened to him, and cooperated with him, politely, with valid points. Spindle had the attitude of a burned out guy who wanted to get his job done and move on to his next assignment.
Ialie2005-07-18 15:39:21
No Spindle was not shown to be wrong.
Please read HELP NAMES again.
It is not an abuse of power to demand that someone change their name.
Also if he chooses another silly name then the guide in question can give him another change to change his name.
Please read HELP NAMES again.
QUOTE
 (if Spindle, Skein, Bobbins or one of our immortals asks you to
 change your name, then it is unaccepable: please change).
 change your name, then it is unaccepable: please change).
It is not an abuse of power to demand that someone change their name.
Also if he chooses another silly name then the guide in question can give him another change to change his name.
Unknown2005-07-18 15:41:32
So it is in the written rules - fine. This doesn't change the fact that Spindle had a horrible attitude towards Richter. That being said, I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they wrote that in, right now, because this thread was created.
Ialie2005-07-18 15:42:23
Meh, you are grasping for straws. Obviously you have never read it. Or a poor oversite on your part. It has always been there.
Unknown2005-07-18 15:44:42
QUOTE(Ialie @ Jul 18 2005, 10:42 AM)
Meh, you are grasping for straws. Obviously you have never read it. Or a poor oversite on your part. It has always been there.
153885
I'm not a perfect human so I don't remember every detail. Ofcourse I read it, but that was a long time ago. I take offense in that Ialie. Not nice.
I'm just upset on how Spindle treated Richter.
Ialie2005-07-18 15:48:43
I upset that someone such as Richter would bring trouble to the guides. Guides are the buffer system for some of the the most intolerant novices. They have their work cut out for them, they do not need more. It is obvious that Richter's character was just trying to get a good laugh. Would you rather the Guides spend their time helping someone like Richter get their kicks, or helping novices that are truely new to Lusternia?
Unknown2005-07-18 15:53:11
QUOTE(Ialie @ Jul 18 2005, 10:48 AM)
I upset that someone such as Richter would bring trouble to the guides. Guides are the buffer system for some of the the most intolerant novices. They have their work cut out for them, they do not need more. It is obvious that Richter's character was just trying to get a good laugh. Would you rather the Guides spend their time helping someone like Richter get their kicks, or helping novices that are truely new to Lusternia?
153894
And you know this? What if Richter was simply trying to keep his valid, good name? Hell, If I make an alt, get a good name that is valid within HELP NAMES, and get told to change it, I'll get pissed. Also, I just looked at HELP NAMES again, and saw this:
QUOTE
OK NAMES
--------
- names you might hear in real life (Roger, Sally, Megan)
- a dictionary word, if not silly nor offensive
 (if Spindle, Skein, Bobbins or one of our immortals asks you to
 change your name, then it is unaccepable: please change).
--------
- names you might hear in real life (Roger, Sally, Megan)
- a dictionary word, if not silly nor offensive
 (if Spindle, Skein, Bobbins or one of our immortals asks you to
 change your name, then it is unaccepable: please change).
The part that said admins have complete control over namechange comes right after OK NAMES. If you look at Richter's original quote, it cuts off RIGHT before it mentions this tid bit. If this little tidbit of information was present during Richter's event, he probably would've noticed it. Infact, he probably would have NOT posted about it, because he would've been wrong about challenging Spindle.
Therefore, I'm going to stick to my guns and say that they implemented the rule after Richter's event.
Ialie2005-07-18 15:57:40
Believe what you want, It doesn't make it right and the matter if Richter's name being silly or not is an opinion that is left up to the guides.
I find Trance highly odd. As I would Daze, Stupor, or Transfixtion.
I find Trance highly odd. As I would Daze, Stupor, or Transfixtion.
Richter2005-07-18 16:23:26
QUOTE(Ye of Little Faith @ Jul 18 2005, 05:03 AM)
Congratulations! You look like a total arse.
153808
QUOTE(Ye of Little Faith @ Jul 18 2005, 07:08 AM)
Dealing with ignorant, childish, prick of a newbie pains like him?
153874
I'm really going to have to ask you to knock that off. You can insult me IC all you want, but doing it after every post I make is really starting to irritate me.
The thing some people fail to realize is:
Every character I ever play is IC to the best of my ability and played completely different from the others. Am I the only one that does this? No, this is hardly a new concept.
And whichever player was controlling the guide at that time went a bit too far with the gestapo-ish attitude, but I've already said it didn't matter that much, because I only use Richter. I'm not mad at all, and it's not a big deal.
My points were valid, my roleplaying was without flaw, and if I made someone's day harder, I apologize.
Unknown2005-07-18 16:48:19
QUOTE(Richter @ Jul 18 2005, 11:23 AM)
I'm really going to have to ask you to knock that off. You can insult me IC all you want, but doing it after every post I make is really starting to irritate me.
The thing some people fail to realize is:
Every character I ever play is IC to the best of my ability and played completely different from the others. Am I the only one that does this? No, this is hardly a new concept.
And whichever player was controlling the guide at that time went a bit too far with the gestapo-ish attitude, but I've already said it didn't matter that much, because I only use Richter. I'm not mad at all, and it's not a big deal.
My points were valid, my roleplaying was without flaw, and if I made someone's day harder, I apologize.
The thing some people fail to realize is:
Every character I ever play is IC to the best of my ability and played completely different from the others. Am I the only one that does this? No, this is hardly a new concept.
And whichever player was controlling the guide at that time went a bit too far with the gestapo-ish attitude, but I've already said it didn't matter that much, because I only use Richter. I'm not mad at all, and it's not a big deal.
My points were valid, my roleplaying was without flaw, and if I made someone's day harder, I apologize.
153919
You're missing the point, I think. There is NOTHING role-played about Guides. ICly, they don't exist. They are purely administrative - they make sure the game runs smoothely. It's quite obvious they're there. But, as far as any character is concerned, they're not there.
Unknown2005-07-18 16:50:06
QUOTE(Kidaen @ Jul 18 2005, 05:03 AM)
Guides do not have a roleplay function any more then Administrators. Hence their names reflect this.
153764
I submit this as evidence to my previous statement.
And, for the record, they're not personal attacks. They're merely statements of my opinion and viewpoint, laced with nice pointy barbs - just to make sure we're all paying attention.
Unknown2005-07-18 16:54:25
QUOTE(Nine Breaker @ Jul 18 2005, 10:53 AM)
The part that said admins have complete control over namechange comes right after OK NAMES. If you look at Richter's original quote, it cuts off RIGHT before it mentions this tid bit. If this little tidbit of information was present during Richter's event, he probably would've noticed it. Infact, he probably would have NOT posted about it, because he would've been wrong about challenging Spindle.
Therefore, I'm going to stick to my guns and say that they implemented the rule after Richter's event.
Therefore, I'm going to stick to my guns and say that they implemented the rule after Richter's event.
153898
Since when has ignorance been a valid excuse? "Oh, sorry. I didn't know the gun was loaded, honest." Or. "Hot damn, where did those two big towers come from? Didn't realize they'd COLLAPSE... Jeez, sorry America!"
Richter2005-07-18 16:54:49
Ah, well, I RP in all situations except if I'm talking to Estarra about credits, a pet, etc. I have to, because if I RP sometimes and not others, I start slipping and my character sucks, I've had it happen before.
Richter2005-07-18 17:04:14
QUOTE(Ye of Little Faith @ Jul 18 2005, 08:54 AM)
Since when has ignorance been a valid excuse? "Oh, sorry. I didn't know the gun was loaded, honest." Or. "Hot damn, where did those two big towers come from? Didn't realize they'd COLLAPSE... Jeez, sorry America!"
153936
I thought this was about me having a good/bad name.
Unknown2005-07-18 17:14:27
QUOTE(Richter @ Jul 18 2005, 12:04 PM)
I thought this was about me having a good/bad name.Â
153944
That wasn't to you, now was it? Nine Breaker was argueing that what you showed in your log did not include the entirety of the HELP NAMES file - and thus, should not be held accountable for actions taken that violate/infringe upon simple, straight-forward rules laid out in said helpfile.
I was simply refuting that statement.
Richter2005-07-18 17:16:16
I only cited up to the point I was making. It is true that the next section speaks of guide veto power on names.
Unknown2005-07-18 17:29:04
QUOTE(Richter @ Jul 18 2005, 12:16 PM)
I only cited up to the point I was making. It is true that the next section speaks of guide veto power on names.
153953
Precisely. And thus, it only give support to my stance (And Ialie's, it would seem) that you were simply showing intentional and uncaring disregard for the powers that be.
And that doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad thing - I mean, it is a method use to begin two of the greatest civil rights moments of our time. We have the oft studied Rosa Parks ordeal, sparking one of the most rapid and angry movements that many people alive today will ever remember. And then the often done Gay Marriage/Civil Unions/Rights issue, where a californian mayor was handing out marriage certificates to gay couples, as well as Mass. making it legal, in the face of other states adding amendments to their constitutions banning such unions.
At the same time, you never hear about Trance, now do you? No, that's a boy who told a Guide where to shove it, and then suddenly dissappeared!
Richter2005-07-18 17:35:00
The fact stands that I made my arguement respectfully.
Unknown2005-07-18 17:38:02
QUOTE(Richter @ Jul 18 2005, 12:35 PM)
The fact stands that I made my arguement respectfully.
153966
As does the fact that the arguement should not have taken place to begin with. Attempting to dissuade them is well and good. But when it is drug out as long as it was, and, while you say it was RP, it was an environment where RP is neither needed nor condoned, it could very easily have been recieved as rude, a waste of time, and insulting.
I guess you should simply be glad that a divine did not look into it and see it was an older player giving a Guide hell. I cannot imagine they would be very kind over things like that.
Richter2005-07-18 17:59:51
Fine then, we'll ask the gods.
Do any of You have a problem with the name, and does Anyone think I went about contending it in a way that was out of line?
Do any of You have a problem with the name, and does Anyone think I went about contending it in a way that was out of line?