I'm not sure, but I think with a "wrong assessment" Roark meant our comparing cleave to lunge/crush, and saying it's inferior, instead of comparing it to double raze?

I think cleave is a worthy equivalent of double raze, but this means we have no lunge equivalent, which we do need, especially since we don't have impale and rend. Maybe we could have something like lunge, but a swing instead, more random on its aim, but at least we could control our wound afflictions a little then.

For example:

syntax: TEAR
Power: 3 (Any)
The next slash will be of greater strength, increasing wounds and drastically lowering the chance to dodge or parry, it will however, not ignore rebounding or magical shields.

It would require balance and equilibrium, but not consume it, so you could set it up before, regain power, then slash, do it right before you slash, and slash again, etc. This way you could set up a more reliable behead or amputate.

This makes no sense. A raze/strike combo involves executing raze. So if raze is sufficiently fast then they will raze...and strike in one combo. A strike/strike combo is impossible when there is a shield of some sort up. Thus the raze/strike combo... The damage is decreased some and balance increased some with cleave. It should be about the same damage over time as wasting one swing on a raze and using the second swing to actually strike the target if you had two weapons.

Except with two weapons and fast raze recovery, you can almost raze/strike/strike. Well, I used to be able to do it with my hammers at only about 250 speed on the faster one. Since the balance change to missing it doesn't seem quite as fast. Still, for bonecrushers especially looking to space out winds and such, you don't need to attack with both arms at the same time. Meaning over time, the two handed warrior can slip in quick razes and still swing twice at a slight loss, and the two hander is much more heavily punished.

Case in point: as an aslaran with hammers, almost every creature is basically dead when it shields. By that I mean, they never get a chance to attack again, because I can raze the shield and keep pressing them on offense so fast that they just reshield 90% of the time. Even if with my crappy damage it takes me 4 more rounds of raze/slash/slash to kill them, at least they aren't hitting me.

That sounds much more effective than cleave, no?

edit: uh, since I'm not that far to test...can cleave even be USED on mobs? Or are pureblades left with voiding mob shields? PLEASE tell me you aren't making us void, or I'll regret that I'm now learning pureblade

I'd just like to comment that Lusternia's weapon system code is probably the most complicated to get an accurate feel for its balance, but Roark does a tremendous job of fine tuning the particular variables. Indeed, the coding for Pureblade and Axelord was started over a month ago (before astrology was even thought of) but we only released it this weekend because of the attention it needed.

But we can't foresee everything until we see a skill in action, and we'd rather observe how it plays out over time rather than jumping to early conclusions. Our aim will always be to have the specializations be relatively equal to each other.

Honestly, I think the point of cleaving is pointless. Nothing is stopping a warrior from switching over to two bludgeons or two swords when a target puts up shield/rebounding to raze/raze. Then once you get balance back to switch back to your axe or claymore and hack away.

Some problems to add onto Daevos's points-

Behead- For 5 powers, and as a Trans ability, this is worse than Sacrament's Judge since the target needs to be proned to initiate it at all. I would suggest it to be changed to the equivalent of Cleaving in Chivalry from other IRE games. This would mean that 1) You can instantly start the instant kill at any times (just like Judge) and 2) You can start it from another room, just as long as the target is inside your room when the 2nd Decapitate message goes off.

Roundhouse- For 5 powers, this skill is extremely poor, especially since it does not negate shield nor rebounding. I honestly don't see any decent fighters even remotely using this skill in single or group combat since you're really screwing yourself over hitting all your enemies' rebounding. The power cost should really be adjusted as well, 5 powers is excessive.

Amputate Leg/Arm- During my initial test with Athalas 2 days ago, these afflictions were not achievable at all for me. Athalas hacked at my legs and arms for over 30 times when they were below critical stage and never got them off.

I had also done 2 spars before you with steffan in which he let me hack at him. Only 1 amputate arm in 5 total spars without the enemy doing anything seems wrong.

Let's compare it to... Wait, it's a trans secondary skill. Sacraments is accessible to Paladins and Celestines. To compare, you need to compare it to something like the trans bonecrusher or trans axelord etc. Not to a secondary skill.

No?

Knighthood is the Primary skillset of warriors, Athletics is our Secondary skill. And what the heck is your point? I am referring to the fact that a warrior's Transcendent Primary skillset is worse than a Secondary non-Transcendent skill. In fact a Paladin would have access to both, which one do you think the Paladin would use in combat?

Gather your information before posting please.

I was referring to Judgement, not behead. One requires them to be prone for 10 seconds, one requires them to be at half mana. Honestly, I imagine you'll be more likely to have them prone (all their limbs mangled/removed, prone, a few poisons in there) before you've the time to drain them to half mana.

But I'm a druid. I'm simply pointing out that you can't compare apples to oranges, except that they're both, well, fruit. And different types, at that.

You know Judgment isn't a Transcendent ability right? And it's in Sacrament, with its Trans ability being Trueheal.

And you are talking about Absolve, which is in Celestialism, which is only accessible to Celestines. I don't mind arguing against non-fighters, but non-fighters that doesn't know what he/she is even talking about really pisses me off.

Is there a frustrated smilie for this?

If I understand this correctly... really high percision means that when when you hit the limb, you have a high chance of pulling off the affliction at that wound level.

So if two swords with 200 percision both have a 50% to pull off "amputate" one sword with 400 percision has a 100% chance to pull off 'amputate' (numbers made up for sake of simplicity). That means you have better odds of your "random" affect, being less "random" and with good weapons (I assume we don't have many of those yet) you can better plan your attacks.

Roundhouse is great when being attacked by a bunch of noobs who are just webbing you.

The axe I was using to try to get amputate had a little over 300 precision.

No. That is affected by Dexterity, the precision only reflects the level of wounding you are able to do. I believe there is only a random dice roll that works off what afflictions you are able to execute, which is reflected by your Dexterity (that determines how often you will inflict wounding afflictions) and the target's wound level. Of course I could be wrong after Roark worked on knight wounding.



How do you propose that you'll roundhouse a bunch of noobs if you were webbed in the first place? Why would you want a Trans ability that is only good for killing newbies anyway?

Tharruk is walking around with a few limbs he likes to use to beat me with... would have to ask him how hard it is for him to get those limbs.

Not exactly. More precision means you do more wounding damage. More wounding damage mathematically translates into more chance to do a higher wound. (You will get to the desired wounding level sooner, and you will dig into it sooner; the odds depend on total wound points, so heavier damage within the same wound level equates to better odds of wounding.) That makes the math a lot more complicated than saying the odds of getting wound X is linearly proportional to the precision stat, which it sounded like the rest of your post was saying.

ahh, my bad... two handed weapons are NOT easier to plan attacks with then

it's like this, well from my observations...

if you have -300 wounds on head its 100% behead with 16 dex

at 0 to -100 wounds you have around 0% behead chance at 16 dex

at -200 you have a 50/50 chance at 16 dex

hypothetically

if you had a lower dex -300 wounds would result in a lower percentage to proc and so you will need to increase the amount of wounds inorder to get an equal percentage.

if you had a higher dex you would then need less than -300 wounds to result to a 100% proc.

so...

the dextirity affects the % chance at wound level, the wound level determines the % chance. Since precission affects how much wounds you give it in a way also affects the % of your afflicts procing.

and so in theory when i become a demi-god...
with 20 str 20 dex and 20 int... i will behead you people after 10 swings

Alger-

That smilie is seriously disturbing.

Didn't Alger say some such about two handed weapons making your right your guide, and your left your power or something? I'd say this is perfect reason why swinging should be different for 2h'd masteries! The before suggestion that someone made, I think Thorgal?, I'm not reading all of this thread..

It's two pages, Raf. I think you could handle that.

It would be great if Slashing was more accurate nonetheless. 2 limbs is okay, but a chance to hit 3 different limbs is a bit harsh, and especially with 2 handed weapons.