How would that make sense from a RP point of view? Demi is supposed to be a mortal transcending mortal bounds, it doesn't relate to guild specifications at all.

how does just allowing 5 fitinto rp reasons?

Someone bashes 12-14 hours a day, becomes a hermit, and takes a month to get lv99-lv100.

I have two reactions here:

1. WE REWARD THEM FOR THAT???

2. It actually makes some RP sense. The lone warrior fighting, or the reclusive mage studying, it reminds me a bit of Raistlin and his antisocial quest to become a god.

What can we do to change things? I don't think the bonuses need to be changed, but I do think that One Major Thing does.

Becoming a demigod does not require any RP. You can bash till your heart's content, and get big bonuses. We'll use Raistlin again as an example (I know, it's not Lusternia), for those that know of him. Did he just fight monsters all day long? Sure, he helped kill stuff, but the real power came from *gasp* knowledge. And quests!

You shouldn't be able to reach demigod from just refining your body, you need to refine your mind as well. Real brain teasers, worldwide quests of huge proportions.

I'd love to see that.

I'd be interested to know how you think the current system makes sense from an RP point of view when the optimal way to achieve Titan/Demi-God involves avoiding conflict, socialisation (and by extension roleplay), exploration and all the other wonderful things Lusternia has to offer?

Sure you COULD do all these things and still bash your way to the top, but it would take you a lot longer. If your goal is to reach Titan then the most effective way to do it is to keep your head down and bash repetitively for hours on end.

I realise that leveling is probably the only half way fair method of measuring character progress, but it still sucks. It's a shame that being a great leader, fearsome warrior, respected scholar, wealthy merchent, , isn't rewarded in the same way as being an excellent hunter.

edit:

QUOTE(Richter)

You shouldn't be able to reach demigod from just refining your body, you need to refine your mind as well. Real brain teasers, worldwide quests of huge proportions.

What I think would also be rather cool, was if other people could offer bodies to you to increase your essence and help you reach Titan/Demigod. This system would reward those who command a loyal following, such as great leaders or warriors, benevolent merchents etc, as well as those who want to spend hundreds of hours bashing.

If you were worried about having too many Demigods, then make it necessary to have a constant essence input to maintain Demigod status. This way only those who are active and could keep their supporters would stay at Demigod for any length of time.

I think this system would reward and encourage those who can influence others, whether by fear, inspiration, roleplay or plain bribery, and for a social roleplaying world that has to be a good thing.

Well, it's just a MUD game. Not a book, movie or tabletop rpg session. As a game, it has limitations.

What kind of worldwide quests of huge proportions do you mean, Richter? Would you provide some example what do you imagine it could be?

Quests might be more complicated in Lusternia but still after you figure them out they become just a repetitive way of gaining exp/gold. Nothing can be done about that because they're just scripts.

I agree that ascending beyond mortality should require gaining power -and- knowledge -and- experience, all in proportions. Maybe some other achievements as well. But it doesn't seem possible in that kind of simplified environment. No matter how well developed Lusternia is, it's still just a text game.

It could be done when it comes to Avatars though. Aesyra was chosen by Hajamin to be his Avatar almost immediately after getting level 100. Now, I realize that she was the first demigod and there was a need to test avatar's powers, but I never even knew much about Aesyra's connections with Hajamin.

That part (Demigod's aspirations to become an Avatar of their God of choice) could, and should be a tedious task of proving themselves worthy by achieving many goals (be it proving their political talents or combat prowess). Something that ties them with the world while proving they truly are the voice and hand of their gods.

EDIT: Why would a merchant, even an excellent one, be able to become a demigod? I can't really imagine how trading can get you closer to godhood.

Well, if you question that you might as well, delete the entire leveling system saying it doesn't have a RP function.

I can't imagine how slaughtering 18 million goats can either, but apparently that's the way it works. Trade is just an example of one aspect of gameplay that attracts people to Lusternia. My point was that a fairer system would be one that rewards people who reach the top at whatever they choose to focus their character on, whether that be trade, politics, combat, hunting etc.


Whether or not the leveling system has a RP function isn't really the point. It's more that it only reflects character advancement in a few limited areas; the ability to kill mobs, complete certain quests, and avoid death.

By making one of the highest character achievements reachable only through leveling (a mainly solitary activity), you are further reinforcing the impression that Lusternia is a glorified single player game (witness Niara's complaints about astral nodes) and actively discouraging those who wish to engage with other players through roleplay, politics, trade, combat, warfare etc.

If Titan/Demigod just gave a few perks and was nothing more than a special reward for reaching the top of the hunting rankings, then there wouldn't be a problem. However my understanding is that Titans and Demigods should be the greatest mortals of their age; admired, respected, feared and revered throughout the lands.

Leveling is its own reward. You reap hundreds of thousands of gold, benefit from increased health and mana, and get free lessons. If you want to put a reward at the top, fine. Some small thing that makes it worth it to get to the top, but that doesn't upset the balance of the game. Something that doesn't grant you guaranteed political power. Something that doesn't make you Lord of PK with minimal effort. Certainly not the one of the highest honours one can achieve. Herald of a freaking God doesn't fit into that category.

Those most likely to become the divine avatars of Gods are also those most likely never to have interacted with the God or the Order. They are the people you've never met, but their essence scores are always up at the top. The fact that it's a pain in the ass to do get hardly justifies the fact that you become an unstoppable killing machine and the (semi) mortal representitive of a God. You haven't necessarily done any roleplay to get it. Anyone who actually Champions their God's cause is never going to get near it, because they're going to have to die, from time to time, let alone set aside 5 minutes to talk to somebody.

Aside from the problems with bashing being the be all and end all, the rewards are simply broken. Say you could buy an artifact that killed people instantly when you pointed it at them, but it cost 10,000 credits. Sure, it's hard to get and you have to really want it, but someone will, and once they do, everyone else is royally rogered. It doesn't matter what the cost is. We have, and will have more, players who can best all but the best with only a casual effort, as a reward for grinding away unlimited astral mobs 16 hours a day. It doesn't make any sense.

EDIT: Tarik beat me to most of it.

I discovered something... Why does a god care about a mortal?

Really they shouldn't... but if that mortal is giving them millions of essence a day, suddenly there is reason for a close bond.

Level 100 means LOTS of essence given over to the god who decides to make you an avatar...

Essence is an abstract concept thats use is largely debatable. A case could be made that essence is simply for the use of the Order to expand its influence and protect itself, and the God cares nothing for it. Since it is doubtful that a God would die if brought to zero essence, they have little reason to concern themselves with it.

Of course, you can also argue that the God needs it to live, and it's a direct measure of your God's power, but it still doesn't justify Avatardom without some intensive roleplay. And nothing justifies the current array of powers.

Titan is fine, it has no massive roleplay value attached, although I think the powers are still too powerful. Level 100 can have titan, toned down maybe.

Avatars, however, should be chosen by the Gods, regardless of level, based on who is actually the most suitable. Fain's Harbinger should be chosen based on a true hatred of the merian and elfen races, and a keen mind for subterfuge and power-mongering, or what have you. The powers should be flavour based, and should by no means make you the Duke of Kill, but for all the world to see, you are the Harbinger of Lord Fain, and you will be shown respect. I use Fain as an example simply because I wanted to use the word Harbinger. Harbinger.

Hey not all high-level people do nothing, I'm level 92 and I actively take part in other things besides bashing.

From what I've heard that's certainly true, but you're more likely an exception than the general rule. And even if everyone did make time for the rest of the game, the environment still promotes ignoring everything until level 100.

In any case, I'm not really trying to condemn the people. I can't really blame people for wanting to get there, who wouldn't given the chance. My beef is with a system that encourages it, and gives out rewards leaps and bounds beyond reasonability.

Thunderclap, Divine Fire...you gotta respect that. I think it's safe to say everyone admires/covets those skills, respects the people that have them (or they die), and fear the wrath of those abilities (the root of this entire conversation).

Well, I do like the idea of essence for the demigods. It gives those level 100 people something to do rather than nothing like the Achaean dragons.

That quote is taken out of context. The entire post states that -because- Demigods are meant to be the greatest mortals of the age, it should -not- be simple bashing that gets you there. The previous paragraph, for instance,



EDIT: To the matter of Demi-god essence, I agree, something for level 100 people do is not out of place, though I don't agree with the current incarnation. Monoliths, though dreadfully poorly designed in Imperian and never really used, were an interesting concept that deserved a better chance.

I was actually arguing that all that should apply to the mortal before they become a Demigod.

/me votes Guido for Demigod



My bad, , I misunderstood what you were saying.

Yeah, the point is that those other activities don't get you any closer to demi-godhood, only bashing does.

I am kinda out of the whole demi-god/titan thing. So far as I know, there is only 1 demigod and what, one or two titans? Seems to me its just fine. People have talked about the need for knowledge and exploration, Im pretty sure Kaervas has one of the highest exploration ratings, and Im sure anyone above level 80 could tell you almost anything ya need to know about combat/quests/ whatever. The fact is that so many people are saying how easy it is to get titan/demigod. Lusternia's coming up on a year and only one person has made it to level 100. Meh, this whole "there can be only one" McCloud dealio is kinda lame, out of the thousands of players, why should it be nerfed when you get to level 100? Thats quite an amazing feat in itself, it shows perserverence, and damn, ya gotta have something in your head combatwise when going at 11 scorpions at a time.