Being an Aquamancer myself, I'll agree that the Deluge-Needlerain-Currents combination is deadly/hindering/maybe overpowered, but it is also one of our best advantages (not including the uber fighters who can do anything even if they didn't use this). Currents can be very annoying to the allies too; the entire group would have to follow the enemy around as they are pushed by currents, and in some cases this actually -helps- the enemy. Same as deluge, the non-Merians in our city will need waterbreathe and waterwalk, and that's easier said then done. Almost always someone doesn't have one (novices), or have run out of them, and it takes time to let people borrow it (in village revolts time is precious).

ANYWAY that was longer than I hoped for, but being an Aquamancer I couldn't help but add my bias to this

Oh and for Geomancers, I would say hunger clouds and rubble are very 'hinderous'. Overpowered, I'm not exactly sure.

I would say Briars is really the main focal point of Druids in Influencing. When we use group combat Treelife/Treebane is rarely used because the warriors get mad at us when their target is suddenly pulled into the trees.

Treebane isn't really a problem, because it only throws you down out of the trees, and if we don't use Treelife, there is nothing to Treebane.

We don't usually get a chance to climb up and sap in influencing either so even with Treelife active, anyone with a trigger can climb down instantly. So overall Druid demesne is only a problem to those who don't have the few triggers needed.

I would say the hardest part about Demesne and I believe it was stated a couple times previously is the ease with which Mages can reduce a Druid demesne, whereas that same ease is not available to Druids. Either make them both easily breakable, or let Druids have some way to "guard" their demesne so it cannot be broken so easily. (I have a skill idea in the Hartstone envoy project on that in fact)

Hunger for Geomancers is probably the worst I can think of

Aquamancers I have never really fought in their demesne so I cannot comment.

Hunger thingo from Geo's is the worst I've dealt with.

* Druid demesnes: I don't find any problem here.

* Geomancer demesnes: Poison gas inducing hunger is too powerful, stun length of lodestone needs to be reduced.

* Aquamancer demesne: Stun length of jellies needs to be reduced.

Overall, all effects should occur on completely random timers, the times should not be controllable.

I don't find any problems to demesnes next to this, especially not since the mage has to be in the area for any of them to take effect.

I think it is important to note the problems removing a mage demesne compared to a druid demesne, also.

Thorgal, demesne stun reduced from 2 seconds to what? half a second? Please... I know you're more rational than that.

It comes down entirely to Stun, Hunger, and Treebane, that's it. And like Thorgal, I haven't found Druid demesnes quite as annoying, though I found Treebane was irritating when trying to kill someone, since it would continuously "rescue" them from me, and would occasionally tell Druids to not use it.

I would like to address the timing issue. While I agree it may be a strong combination in a demesne that has a passive stun affect, the only real way for a Hartstone Demesne to be more than a walk in the park(no pun intended). Is by the timing of it, and even then unless the Druid is there to hopefully get a sap off on you, it is not that hard. Every 10 seconds you focus body, sip melancholic, eat pennyroyal, apply mending (if Treebane hit) and probably cure the rune that hit you(if one happened to do so).

In a group fight Hartstone Demesne it is even easier. Focus, sip, eat, yawn, move on.

If timing was changed because the other two demesne have a greater capacity for damage I would say Hartstone needs a serious look at for what it does.

Uh, it's longer than 2 seconds.

You positive? Was 2 seconds last I checked. Lemme go test.

Was 3 seconds when I timed.

It is 2 seconds for aquamancer and less than 2 for geomancer. I've timed them over and over along with timing my demesne. My last effect hits right when stun is finished every time and it is timed to go off 2 seconds after jellies hit.

*note Terenas should be able to verify my claims, since I've done the testing of the lined up demesne effects on him.

Okay then, remove passive stun from demesnes alltogether instead of decreasing stun length.

Sure... just remove tendonslice and knockdown. That's quite a fair exchange

Oh please don't remove legtendon, it's all that exists to even vaguely prevent pinleg whoring >_< >_< >_<

Bah just give me full achaean vibes, the ability to choose which elemental damage I will use, stormhammer, diamondskin, and hellfumes. I will then support the campaign to eliminate demesnes all together.

By "full achaean vibes", we mean Retardation, too.

Darn straight!

Indeed. I would, however, settle with kaido/subterfuge/tekura.

Without timing, a druid demesne is damned easy to just shrug off. In large teams, yes, I can see how a timed demesne could be too strong. Solo or against small teams, though, being stuck with a random demesne weakens us a LOT.