Richter2005-07-26 07:22:13
Calling someone a racist is an insult, but them a republican is not.
Racism = bad
Republicans = about 50% of the US political system
Racism = bad
Republicans = about 50% of the US political system
Olan2005-07-26 07:41:42
I'm not saying in whatever case this happened, but calling someone a racist is NOT necessarily a personal attack. The person so designated could be factually and descriptively a racist, perhaps even proud of it, as sad as that might seem to some of us. In that case, saying they are racist, even though you imply negative connotation, is actually and descriptively a correct designation.
People who are republicans won't get offended (just) by you calling them a republican (although usually there are more words involved that might be more offensive). Someone who is not a republican and dislikes republicans might find it offensive.
People might take words like 'niggardly' to be offensive, even though their meaning and entire root structure has NOTHING to do with what people would connect it to. (oh, come on someone, moderate this and prove me right ;-)
I think Daganev is wrong sometimes. I think we all disagree with each other fairly often. He is more willing than I, for example, to jump into the most heated discussions. I don't personally know of any circumstance under which he has done something moderator wise that is wrong, and I trust that the community of moderators keeps an eye on each other.
People who are republicans won't get offended (just) by you calling them a republican (although usually there are more words involved that might be more offensive). Someone who is not a republican and dislikes republicans might find it offensive.
People might take words like 'niggardly' to be offensive, even though their meaning and entire root structure has NOTHING to do with what people would connect it to. (oh, come on someone, moderate this and prove me right ;-)
I think Daganev is wrong sometimes. I think we all disagree with each other fairly often. He is more willing than I, for example, to jump into the most heated discussions. I don't personally know of any circumstance under which he has done something moderator wise that is wrong, and I trust that the community of moderators keeps an eye on each other.
Shiri2005-07-26 07:56:04
QUOTE(Olan @ Jul 26 2005, 08:41 AM)
People might take words like 'niggardly' to be offensive, even though their meaning and entire root structure has NOTHING to do with what people would connect it to. (oh, come on someone, moderate this and prove me right ;-)
157330
I always thought niggardly meant cowardly. Am I right?
Olan2005-07-26 08:02:34
it is most commonly defined as 'miserly' actually. Like Scrooge.
Unknown2005-07-26 08:05:18
QUOTE(daganev @ Jul 26 2005, 04:50 PM)
Right, I was afraid you'd say that.
See, I may have an opinion you don't agree with, but if me having that opinion makes you biased against me, thats an issue on your part, not mine. I, nor can anyone else, be expected to have opinions that everyone agrees with. The fact that one would be insulted by being called a repbulican, is in itself very insulting to anyone who believes strongly in being a republican. And this was my issue with the IRC chat room, and the way its being moderated.
See, I may have an opinion you don't agree with, but if me having that opinion makes you biased against me, thats an issue on your part, not mine. I, nor can anyone else, be expected to have opinions that everyone agrees with. The fact that one would be insulted by being called a repbulican, is in itself very insulting to anyone who believes strongly in being a republican. And this was my issue with the IRC chat room, and the way its being moderated.
I was half-joking at the Republican thing, and I've already covered the bias.
QUOTE
The question is no longer if someone can have an opinion, its an issue of having an opinion that the more loudly spoken people agree with, or can spend the mental effort to find reason behind.
No it's about how you express your opinion.
QUOTE
I'm sure someone is going to say "but they were just joking." And I question the banality of those types of arguments because, would said person make the same joke in the opposite direction? Most often, they do not, and when they don't that "joke" turns from 'humor' to a 'humours expression of the view they hold.'
Another MAJOR falacy that people keep making is the thought that if someone questions something, it means they suppport the position that you think the answer to that question leads to. And yet another is the thought that one person is incapable of arguing more than one point of view.
Another MAJOR falacy that people keep making is the thought that if someone questions something, it means they suppport the position that you think the answer to that question leads to. And yet another is the thought that one person is incapable of arguing more than one point of view.
I argue multiple points of view all the time. In fact, I often argue against myself. If you point out the floors in your own argument you can address the flaws or just take away the ability for someone to surprise you with their counter.
QUOTE
I can't begin to count the number of times I've been attacked for asking a question.
157320
Hmm.
Shiri2005-07-26 08:11:00
QUOTE(Olan @ Jul 26 2005, 09:02 AM)
it is most commonly defined as 'miserly' actually. Like Scrooge.
157334
...hm. Drat. I'm going to look that up to see if I was at least partly right now.
EDIT: Darn. Where the hell did I get that impression then?
Xavius2005-07-26 10:32:16
Here's the thing. Daganev-the-poster annoys me to no end. He needs to learn how to spell; he needs to learn the proper use of capital letters; he needs to step back and consider the tone of his posts before he makes them. I don't really like the guy's behavior out here (although he's a half-decent guildmaster, and I'd hate to lose him from the game). I don't like logging onto the forums to find out that he's arguing a point I agree with. Deep down, I feel like it taints my ability to turn it into a rational discourse.
That having been said, I don't see what the issue with him as a moderator is. People accuse him of biased moderation, but I just don't see it. He's relatively consistent. He could do a better job of moderating his own posts, sure, but it's harder to see your own failings. The simple fact that we have moderators illustrates that nicely enough. When those things happen, another mod can step in, edit Dag's post, and life is good.
That having been said, I don't see what the issue with him as a moderator is. People accuse him of biased moderation, but I just don't see it. He's relatively consistent. He could do a better job of moderating his own posts, sure, but it's harder to see your own failings. The simple fact that we have moderators illustrates that nicely enough. When those things happen, another mod can step in, edit Dag's post, and life is good.
Iridiel2005-07-26 14:24:33
I guess the things Daganev could fail that would imply he's a bad moderator could be:
- Deleting posts that argue his opinions as poster
- Using different criteria when moderating himself/his friends/others
- Moderating posts to change its meaning without permission from the original poster
- Closing threads that don't go the way he want them to go
- Use his powers as moderator to help his opinions / his friends opinions
If you can prove he is doing any of this, he's a bad moderator (this list isn't exhaustive, it's my own personal list of bad moderating). Otherwise, he's just a bad poster, but we all have a bad poster inside, and we don't have a poll for each one of us.
- Deleting posts that argue his opinions as poster
- Using different criteria when moderating himself/his friends/others
- Moderating posts to change its meaning without permission from the original poster
- Closing threads that don't go the way he want them to go
- Use his powers as moderator to help his opinions / his friends opinions
If you can prove he is doing any of this, he's a bad moderator (this list isn't exhaustive, it's my own personal list of bad moderating). Otherwise, he's just a bad poster, but we all have a bad poster inside, and we don't have a poll for each one of us.
Unknown2005-07-27 02:40:25
QUOTE(Ye of Little Faith @ Jul 25 2005, 11:30 PM)
I maintain, though, painting people as racists simply for giving credit to controversial historical figures is quite beyond bad tastes for a moderator.
157263
That, and you making tasteless Holocaust jokes over IRC which offended a number of people.
Also, I think Daganev is doing a decent job at moderating. I mean, his posts are mostly stupid and incoherent and annoy the hell out of me, and he's made a few errs here and there, but I think every moderator has.
Daganev the Poster ->
Daganev the Moderator ->
Unknown2005-07-27 12:28:31
QUOTE(Etanru @ Jul 26 2005, 09:40 PM)
That, and you making tasteless Holocaust jokes over IRC which offended a number of people.Â
Also, I think Daganev is doing a decent job at moderating. I mean, his posts are mostly stupid and incoherent and annoy the hell out of me, and he's made a few errs here and there, but I think every moderator has.
Daganev the Poster ->Â
Daganev the Moderator ->Â
Also, I think Daganev is doing a decent job at moderating. I mean, his posts are mostly stupid and incoherent and annoy the hell out of me, and he's made a few errs here and there, but I think every moderator has.
Daganev the Poster ->Â
Daganev the Moderator ->Â
157498
Well, to be fair, Daganev did make a Holocaust joke, or two. And we were picking on more than just one ethnicity - Laysus was making Irish jokes! Harharhar, what's black and fuzzy and hangs from he ceiling? Irish electrician. Ahahahahahahahahahahaha.
Roark2005-07-30 00:56:43
I think it is important to differentiate from what one does when posting and what one does when moderating. If I posted my own personal opinion to every thread I see out there (especially the real world section), most of you would probably think I'm a total nutjob. But that would not have any bearing on a poll that asks if Roark's coding skills are l33t or sux0rs. Similarly, I am seeing lots of comments on forum post contents that have no bearing on the topic of moderating skillz.