Or just as a minor thought...

In the same way Sanctuary can bring a little peace to violent influencing, perhaps Crusade could bring a little violence into peaceful influencing. Create a combat viable room. *shrugs* Don't know if it works like that now, or if people would approve of the idea...

NO! o.o We just FINALLY got peaceful influencing, WHY ruin it? >.<

Considering the fact that peaceful influencing isn't a 50/50 shot I really don't like that idea. If people want to put their opponent's out of commission then they're welcome to learn how to debate.

I like that idea, Crusade should work in peaced villages and it would balance the whole thing. Since where the natural state is war(Acknor, Angkrag, and the other villages some of the time), sanctuary can be used to change that in some rooms. So where the natural state is peace(Delport, Estelbar, and the other villages some of the time), crusade should be able to change that in some rooms as well.

I'd really like to see village influencing take more of the influencing skillset and not be another excuse for poking people with pointy things. Please, can we just have it as it is now? A couple of peacful village revolts every now and then isn't much to ask for.

Peaceful incfluencing...Please, this is looking more and more like achaea every day.

I was drawn to this game for the realism and complexity of the world. Because I liked the idea of fighting for power, and taking it by any means neccesary. However, I DONT like the idea of 'debating' someone to death. If all of you want a whiny, cuddly, carebear game, try this one: www.achaea.com. Please dont spoil this mud, we've got a great thing going here, and it really would be a shame to turn this into a clone of EVERY other mud on the net with more PK restrictions and rules than carter has liver pills!

I was drawn to this game for the depth of its history and mythology and the chance to roleplay, not to PvP at every turn. You have about as much right as I do in telling you to go somewhere else.

but hes not the one whos trying to change it to his wants, he just wants it to be left alone.

So? It's not up to either of us in the end.

Just pointing out that your argument isnt actually applicable because hes saying he doesnt want the whiney people to wreck what drew him here in the first place. He's not try to change anything that drew you here.

What Daevos is saying has a lot of merit. Having the less aggressive villages always come in Peaced with the caveat that Crusade would function in them sounds good...after all, how long have pacifists been observing that Sanctuary wasn't enough to make a open PK village peaceful? Using that same argument, Crusading in a closed PK village shouldn't be enough to make it too violent.

All that aside, though, influencing Shanthmark was a lot of fun. I forget who said it first, but village influencing really does take all the best aspects of Landmarking while keeping it all meaningful. It's a beautiful system, and I hope that if it ever does get beaten to death with the peace stick, something else is ready to take its place on Prime...many people don't seem to realize that it's easy to simply stay away from a good battle, but a lot harder to find one to participate in. I keep hearing these strange mantras about combat being easy to find off Prime...See, jumping people without a reason to do it is griefing to me. Village influencing makes combat meaningful, and gives us a reason to be there fighting.

I might be wrong but I am pretty sure Estarra has mentioned a few times that she never intended influencing - and other aspects of the game - to be as PK-driven as they have become, or were before changes were implemented. Whether it was poor design, under or over estimating the players, or whatever, it did end up being quite violent.

So I could argue that I was drawn to the game by what was intended and the impression it gave through the website and synopsis' I read, and my argument becomes just as valid as someone who stayed for the violence.

Also, by his argument, there are plenty of hack and slash pk muds out there, so maybe he should be the one to bugger off?

Nay, QuidgyBoo, the violence inherit in influencing is far from hack and slash. The system has an amazing potential for organized group conflict. You will not find that in any other mud in existance, I believe. This is what makes Lusternia special to me, and many others i'm sure.

If you take away our ability to have it out in a good ol' fashion fight, you are extinguishing so many strategic options in this world. Non violent influencing is bland, by its nature. Those who are highly skilled in the influencing skill, along with those of high city rank are the only ones of potential use in a non violent situation. Unless you want to count guardians running around chanting people's ego, as if that were even remotely exciting.

I believe that everyone who supports non violent influencing is dooming the future of this game. It will grow to be bland and boring, and the only thing left of interest will be the mere fact that it is an IRE game.

You're right it's a great feature, but no one is totally taking it away. Most of the village influencing will still be the same as before, it is only Estelbar, Delport and randomly, in villages besides Acknor and Angkrag.

So that's two peaceful, two violent, and another six that have the potential to be peacful when Eroee and the Sun are in the same place at the same time when a village revolts, which is a fairly small chance. Violence will still be a viable option in the majority (I would guess at 70%, maybe 75%) of village influencing sessions.



And only those are highly skilled in the many violent skills are useful in violent situations. I don't see the problem, I see more of a balance now.

I find running around helping people influence more exciting than poking things, so yes, it is remotly exciting to feel useful on occasion.



I believe everyone who supports totally violent influencing is dooming the game to a one dimensional level of conflict.

Very few combat situations are not group based. Violent Influencing is just as bland, by nature. There is no real tactics involved, it is group a meets group b and hope you have the right triggers to heal and get enough lucky strikes before the other side does.

Turning a village peaceful now and then allows those who are not good at fighting a chance to do what they are good at. I have already pointed out you do not need high Influence to be useful. What you do need is debate, cr2 minimum, and the ability to do some comm quests. Not everything should be about PK.

Note, I don't agree all villages should be just influencing. The fighters need their day as well, but there is no reason that some villages can't be peaced, other than the fact that those who only want PK don't like the fact they are stuck doing something they don't like.

The problem isnt that people are stuck doing something they dont like its just that from a complex system everything was dumbed down. I think what most miss is that pkers find pk interesting because they're fighting against people, which makes it as they say "more exciting" because you're fighting someone who thinks. It really doesnt matter if its killing, influencing or what not those only really come second to the challenge that it offers. Now peacing is bland in comparison because you're then forced to reduce this challenge into a game of simple probabilities. Our glorious 50 skillsets then turns into rock paper scissor combinations.

and Gregori if thats how you think group combat goes then no wonder you guys lose so much

Considering that this only happens once in awhile for a set two villages, and very random for the next (Which is saying A LOT since they have to be under the influence first before the second factor) makes me think that you all are jumping the gun. It's like you think this ruins influencing forever. If I'm not mistaken it wasn't a peaceful influence today, was it? I didn't think so.

Sometimes you have to roll with the punches. If you have to debate 1/24 village revolts then learn how to freakin' debate. If the prospect of combat when a village revolts brings you that close to game enjoyment then great, but this is just as bad as saying to the "peaceful" people to stay out of influencing if they don't like it. Now it's their extremely random day in the sun.

Exactly what I was trying to say, and what Alger said last

It's also easy and simple to stay away from a peaceful influencing session if it annoys you so much that you have to do it 20 something percent of the time.

This current setup is okay. My only problem with influencing was demense-control of any given village. Anyways.


Oh my god. It's TOO short now. Whoever gets in the fastest and influences the most on the first round..wins. We used to get a second or third round shot at it, but the villagers take ages to forget and next thing, the village turns. This change was due to people (yes, Mag players as well) complaining that influencing took too long. And of course, they only complained when they were losing.

I don't mind long influencing runs. I want a chance to win it if we can't get in there right away and influence everything as we're hindered by a geodemesne.

Could we change it back to the former ratio that determined a winner? Especially with all of these new changes in place.

Killing people/breaking demesnes isn't even as important anymore. I want conglut taken out as well. What's the point of killing someone that will pop right back up in the village in two seconds? Make us all pray again! I don't care. We could actually get something done while the opposing influencers have a word with the Fates.

And before anyone says it, I -never- asked for the villages to be peaced or for pk to be taken out completely. Fighting is fun. Just not for everyone. Alger, you can be so... biased. Just like me!

Thanks for your time!