Spawned by the Raziela rant. People have been complaining about Magnagora being filled with bloodthirsty, thuggish griefers who are out to ruin the game since Day 1. Yet, no one offered reasonable solutions. I made this poll to try and come out with solutions.

Personally, I think the first option would make Lusternia utterly boring. Second option might be doable but I just can't see Magnagora as anything else than a city-state trying to carve its own empire in the Basin.

Post your solutions if you have any.

Personally I think the choices are wrong. The options should be

1) Do you believe Magnagora is Greifing
2) Do you believe Magnagora is not Greifing
3) Do you think Magnagora just likes to kick puppies and small children.

The last is optional, but your poll is really the same choice reworded.

Eh, maybe but... it's just that everytime Magnagora makes a move, forum threads appear and label them as griefer, so I just assumed they were and made a poll looking for solutions.

The problem with your options is that finding out if Magnagora is griefing or not wouldn't really achieve anything, hence why I assumed they were.

Why there is no option: Beeing in Magnagora isnt a challenge, join Celest!:huh:

If Celest get some more players like Alger, Eiru, Kaervas, Ixion, Daevos and so on.. there is a lot of them. A lot more then in Celest . thing would look diffrent if we would have peoples to actually stop then and it would be great if we could fight back.

Ps: i still need credits, if someone is willing to donate them to me

Hmmm. I see a topic that will likely degenerate into a bunch of posts saying Magnagora sucks, they need to stop 'griefing', or drop their role of wanting to spread the taint, which they seem to try to do through combat at this time.

I only see problems with this thread coming, starting right in the form of this poll. 'Make treaties - stop beating us. Stop your rp, thus, stop beating us. Or, listen to us, which, once again, is likely going to say the exact same thing of: 'Stop beating on us.'

I think you need to consider making your poll a bit more broad, Nav, adding options like 'No, they are fine the way they are', 'They could lighten up on us a bit', 'They should not lighten up, but in fact beat down on us harder, ' 'I don't like what they do, but I'm not so sure it's wrong.', etc.

Personally, I don't see anything wrong with what Magnagora is doing - they are living up to their role as a dominating force in the basin. I also, personally, feel the the very people complaining about them being a force to reckon, due to having very well trained fighters who work together, are merely envious.

I have seen more than one occasion where the very people who complain about something, *cough, fighting in villages* are the exact same people who will instantly shut up should they then succeed in the very thing they were just complaining about.

I have no doubt at all, that once the other places in the Basin continue to grow and reach the level Magnagora already has, they won't be so inclined to whining because they'll be able to do the same things as Magnagora is able to do now.

Agreed. But these two options were the only things I could think of

To my defense, I did add an 'Other' option

I don't think the burden should (necessarily) be on Magnagora to invent treaties. I think all of this could be handled in character. The problem is, the people who should be proposing treaties are the ones that are losing the wars, but who is seriously going to suck up their pride and do that? Seriously, what treaty do you think a dominant world power is going to bring to the table that another group of players is EVER going to accept? We say something on the order of 'surrender.' Why wouldn't we? What do you want? "We'll give you back two villages in exchange for...oh wait, what do you have to offer again?" If you are the weaker position at the table, what do you expect us to offer you?

Celest: "Man, our Supernals are all dead, we're hemmoraging players, we have no villages, etc etc. We're totally hosed."

Magnagora: "If you say the words 'I surrender' and stop raiding us, then we can promise years of peace for you to try and not suck."

Celest: "NO! WE WILL NOT SURRENDER! WE WILL NOT GO QUIETLY INTO THE NIGHT!"

(the above was an overdramatization)

Why don't the players of organizations do something IC about it? Oh wait, because you're contrained by your interp of your RP as 'Taint iz bad OMGZ we cant' talks to them!!1'?


This isn't because the Supernals aren't strong enough, as you could see by 1) the number of players needed, and 2) the number of deaths incurred. You can't say that killing supernals at all is griefing, since they are obviously put there as a conflict method and intended to be killed on occasion. Everyone is 'guilty' of this attacking when no one is around 'crime,' but the more I think about it the more I think it is nonsense. People are doing it when they are around. We can't hog-tie half of the world from doing anything because it doesn't fit our egocentric view of proper time zones.

Come to the forums to whine, instead of dealing in game, instead of making alliances fluid and imagining the world a little more realpolitik, instead of wearing your RP like a straightjacket. Yeah, you're doing a GREAT thing for the realms and RP. Congratulations.

I'm not whining that you are killing Supernals and riding us, i'm winnng that we dont have enough people.
If we would have more people we would be doing same.

I'm not asking you to stop i'm asking you to join Celest!

Wasn't directed at you in particular, Ekard, I think you have a pretty solid and reasonable view of the world. Wish more in Celest were like you.

Make Celest attractive to people who like Magnagora, and you will have more people to defend with when Magnagora attacks.

Its the people who make policy in the cities and guilds that affect what type of player joins, not the histories.

Thanks.


Any idea how to do this?
We have just unlucky. I'm helping our novices as much as i only can but it dosent seem to be enough, i almoust never see my proteges.
I help a lot of people in Celest but they are mainly those that wont be buing ooc cr and /or are unfamiliar with muding. We need more creditswhores, no offens to all of you, i just cant afford to buy any, as most of people. I dont know how many people have atrties in Celest but its propably a lot less then Magnagora.

Bah i didnt want to sound like you are winning cose you have more arties!

Everyone's guilty of it, including you.


I voted for number 2 although it wouldn't solve anything. There -has- to be conflict, I agree. In moderation. The villages make for great conflict. I love influencing and winning. It's rare but sweet.

With those nodes drained, there's been a lot more raiding, that I've noticed. Awww. Solutions, I don't know. I can't think right now. Celest could do with more people and I'm not saying that Mag players should convert over. I hate that.

Yea, i don't like idea with converting too, i would let in to celest only 3 Magnagorans: Ixion Eiru and Alger, wont say why oh and Gruhk

We just need some fresh -old- blood. Old in this sense that they know what mudding is and will as dedicated as those from Magnagora.

Anyone else see an oxymoron? (Or just )

On either account, I don't have a problem with combat itself, but when combat becomes your sole roleplaying purpose it begins to look skewed. Magnagora, in the beginning of the game, was shown to have Great Houses with scholars, noble, proud Viscanti, and so on. Now the idea of Magnagora from the outside looking in seems to be snarling demons who seem to be ready to jump off the handle whenever necessary.

I'm not saying Magnagora should stop their "world domination" as outlined in their city scroll, but something should be done. Roleplay (And this applies to Lusternia as a whole) shouldn't be based around rotating combat spheres. With all the rich history I just think we could be doing something else with our time.

What if all of the Paladins of Achaea switched over to Lusternia, woo. Aoelithon, Itkovian, Teg, Medivh, Altarius (well, when he was a Pallie) That'd be so awesome.

When Magnagora has offered treaties in the past, and they get laughed at and the leaders refuse to talk about them, calling them tantamount to surrender (which they might well be), I have little to no pity for this sort of topic.

Sometimes, you've got to swallow your pride and do what's best for the organization as a whole. If you're bleeding players due to constant conflict, then do something in-game to stop the conflict, even if it means sacrifice, instead of whining on the forums about the unfairness of it.

Crying on the forums, and then having your character run around screaming "DIE! MAGNAGORA AND THE TAINT MUST DIE!!!!" in the name of "roleplay" only means that you're roleplaying a character who is a deranged psychopathic murderer.

The problem is not Magnagora. Magnagora has some fine players that are just doing what they are expected to do by the roleplay background they are meant to fulfill. We cannot meaningfully fault them for this.

The problem is inherent in the barriers to crossover designed into the realm background itself, and the apparent lack of desire to do anything about this. We have a process (becoming Tainted) that works, for all intents and purposes that we have seen so far other than through near-Divine intervention, one way. Once someone is Tainted, they may as well be Tainted for life. This is as much perception as mechanics, but the perception is reinforced by all roleplayable scenarios we've been thus far permitted. I don't see how it can't have been noticed how difficult it's set up, where we're basically in a war in which one side has been told they CAN win (Nothing is sacred, pretty much anything can be Tainted from what we've seen so far) and the other side CAN'T win. (The Taint can't be destroyed, only its spread and influence can be limited.) I've provided a strong means by which players at least could crossover with some greater proficiency and with less of a cultural stigma, and I'm waiting on the response from Up Above, but this has been a problem for as long as I've been around.

Here a question to go along with this:

If Magnagoria stops beating on Celest, whether by some change in ideal, Celest surrendering, or either city getting hit by a Commune-inspired FF7-style meteor, then what SHOULD they be doing?

I mean, once you've bested your foe in combat, what else can you do with your time? The villages are all influenced, you don't have a need for 10000 more power, and everything is tainted.


Perhaps the REAL problem isn't the combat per se, or even the fact one side is winning, it's the fact that all we seem to have in this game is War. We can't let one side truly win because then the game ends. We can't call off the war because then, again, the game ends. The only thing we can do is force some way to keep the war going at all costs.

What we need is something more than a war for each nation to want to strive for, something that the other nations would NOT want (thus war and conflict) but something that continues and grows if the foes can't stop them.

Maybe it's time to draw everyone towards creating Vernal Gods?

The "win" (if you want to call it that) as far as cities and communes go is to survive and spread your influence throughout the Basin. Looking solely at the mechanics, the taint cannot be "cured", but, then again, neither does it spread (except insofar as demesnes can change the nature of the environment). Surely, you're not suggesting that areas and mobiles can be permanently tainted and untainted ad nauseum. Notwithstanding the fact that we would have to have two mobs (and associated scripts) or rooms for each occassion (tainted and non-tainted), it seems to me that this would exacerbate the conflict. If you are talking about players, the only player that is truly "tainted for life" is a viscanti, and I'm not understanding what mechanics can be achieved to "untaint" a viscanti other than through roleplaying unless you mean they should all get a free reincarnation.

I'm not talking about mechanics, though. I'm talking about perceptive influence. Because of the way the realm history has been set up, it is far easier to go from being of the Light to the Taint than it is from going from the Taint to the Light. This crossover barrier has formed because of the impact that precedence has on player perceptions. Regardless of whether mechanics reinforced this or not (it should not, nor do I feel it does in most instances) the perceptive influence is vast and important. Ignoring it will just serve to propagate it further by means of providing a de facto acknowledgement that the scenario is as intended.