Hey, no flaming or useless insults on my poll! It is one of the few threads without any and it'd be fun to keep it that way

I see a clear distinction here, between (surprise!) Light vs Taint players. You tell us to suck it up, get over it. It is much, much, much easier said than done. Celest has already been in a long chain of losing conflicts, and the citizens are all worn out. After the incident with Raziela and the Inner Sea, I really thought we could get a break, but this event where ALL the Supernals get killed... it's hard to handle, seriously, and it's only natural to feel agitated, whiny, and angry at everything. Plus, we've had 0 villages for a while, so we weren't in a good mood to start with. I see a lot of references to Tuek and Narsrim, but that is in the past and I doubt they have done it again. If we keep referring to what happened before, we'll never make any progress.
Avoid combat? Oh sure, we'll just make it even easier for the enemies to beat us down, not like it makes a difference anyway, since usually we only muster a force of around 10 if lucky, including Serenwilders, a majority which still haven't fully left novicehood yet. If we actually had a good army that matched or nearly matched Magnagora's, and they STILL won, then that is totally understandable and there wouldn't be anything to complain about.

I thought, actually I hoped, the people behind the moniters would feel empathetic to us, and that they were just carrying out their character's roles, which is fine. I was wrong. I guess I should just stop being hopeful and optimistic altogether.

I completely agree and was going to write something in response to Bricriu snapping at you, but had an emergency issue to take care of (I'm anonymous so you won't exactly see me writing). The problem is (And I'm touching from both sides) is that the majority of the players that stay in Lusternia think this roleplay = conflict is commonplace and their main response to threads like this is "Suck it up and deal with it," but what people don't realize is this isn't a console game. It's a dynamic world full of rich history and admin who actually given a damn. Not only that, but it isn't always a "I win I win!" situation as seen with village influences and Organization vs Organization quests.

Conflict is not a bad thing, but when it comes as an endless war (as Gwylifar said) or a continuous situation that begins to lose its roleplay merit due to happening since November without real roleplay changes then it becomes an issue. There needs to be reasons to roleplay that, while not necessarily hardcoded, are more prevalent than the "You are my enemy!" thing we've seen off and on since open beta, and I think that's what we're trying to say to the admin. New skills, whether it be guild related or not, are all good, but to me it's pulling a mask over the underlying situation as was creating solutions for combat zones (Not saying don't follow through with your initial design specs, which are great, but if the playerbase continues to diminish then there's no point). In reality by giving someone something other to do than engage in combat, quest/bash for experience, and sift about for roleplay opportunities (Given the fact that we're all enemies any roleplay began may result in combat or are limited to the commune/city we exist in) would solve many of the issues at hand.

We, as players and the designers, need to come up with innovative solutions to this problem. It shouldn't be, as Gwylifar said, a band-aided system that you're forced to create to cull the wild violence that you didn't expect. Rather than that, people need a reason to roleplay that isn't twisted in conflict. People need to be able to roleplay something without the thought of it resulting in a new skill or something completely run by the admin. It shouldn't take complete admin intervention to have a immersive roleplay, but by both sides dancing around the issue that's what people tend to expect.

I realize I'm throwing this out without giving anything back, but at this point I'm not sure what would even be viable (Plus it would take serious discussion between peers who aren't going to say "Stuff it!"). The Lusternia I've grown to know revolves around when Serenwilde is going to sign a treaty, if so, watching Celest get raided and my deathsense filled with all sorts of messages, or wondering what's the point of gaining experience if I'm not going to engage in combat. As I said before I think the developers behind Lusternia (The whole lot of you) are the greatest bunch I've EVER been introduced to in my days of mudding, but when something so rich, so exciting, so.. promising loses its flare due to extreme focus on a central issue I don't know and I can't imagine how you must feel about us constantly whining, but most of us aren't complaining to complain or because we tossed out money here. It's all about our love for this great world and how we KNOW it can flourish, and how we desire it to become something it has shown us to be and that it continues to prove that it is.

I'm not backing away from Lusternia because I have faith in its players and its developers. Things shouldn't be so one-sided where we always rely on them for a quick fix. Let's try and work something out so everyone, whether they be combatant, influencer, hardcore roleplayer, or simply the average bunch, can enjoy. Whining can only get us so far without action.

"We, the Moondancers, dedicate ourselves to the care, protection and
defense of the Ethereal plane and the Fae. This sacred bond is founded
upon an ancient tradition of mutual trust beginning with Ellindel
Treeheart's historical efforts on their behalf."


We, the Moondancers, have always seen ourselves as the defenders of the Fae above ALL else. This has always been who we are. We put their safety before the commune even at times. This is who we are. Yes, you could say it's our fault for not being willing to change our RP, but asking us to stop caring about the Fae is like asking Magnagora to stop caring about the Taint, or Celest to stop caring about the Light.

The Night Avatars want the Fae dead and enslaved. They won't even accept Fae brought to them alive - the Fae HAVE to be dead. They delight and enjoy the slaughter of those we hold most dear.


Before, we could ally with both Celest and Magnagora, even though they did gain a benefit from killing the Fae. Why? Because they could just not do those quests - they were far from being major sources of power income. With Glomdoring, you'd have to give up your primary power quest EVEN when Faethorn is swayed to Mother Night's control.

More than that, the Shadowdancer wicca skills involve them tearing the Fae, kicking and screaming, from the Ethereal, and then binding them and forcing them to aid the Shadowdancers against their will. THIS is why I cannot see us every allying with Glom, or having friendly relations. If every archdemon summoned by Magnagora was really a corrupted archangel, would Celest ever ally or make peace treaties with Magnagora? I happen to think no.

In my eyes, for the Moondancers to ever consider honestly peaceful relations with Glomdoring, the Shadowdancers would have to give up an entire skillset. This is, of course, not a reasonable request by any means. The problem I see is that the Fae are enslaved WAY too obviously - you can't call it *anything* else. You can't pass it off to us as anything else. Viravain's supposed to be the sneaky, manipulating goddess - why is the enslavement of the Fae so bloody overt? It's unneccessary, and keeps us from ever thinking they're not evil *sigh*


On the note of change - as part of some of the new policies and rituals of the Moon Coven, which are soon going into effect, our members will be told to study the ways of the Glomdoring Commune, including their views on the Fae. This *could* be a chance for better understanding to occur between our communes.


And on another note, I in fact do NOT think the admins are doing a terrible job. I think this is, honestly, the best online roleplaying game I have ever seen. I am sorry that I so often come across as ungrateful - I am just very frustrated at times, and those times are usually just before I post on the forums. I think the game would be considerably better if the forums were shut down - the ones where people talk about IC things, at any rate. Maybe not forever, just for a short while.

*surprise* Glomdoring, if your refering it also by taint.. has gone through much hell and yet, we still agree with Magnagora. Suck. It. Up. Glomdoring is -still- losing conflicts. I hardly see where Celest can cry yet Glomdoring is going through just as much and they still stand to say they want the conflict. Ok, quite frankly, if there is going to be a law against doing anything with RP, as in, allowing conflict and allowing cities to have its ups and downs, then, more than half of Lusternias people will probably leave. It is, after all, mainly the people that fight that buy OOC credits to trans nearly all their skills, seeing as the only real reason you need guild skills are to help you survive.

Why do you want empathy? Glomdoring gets crushed, accepts it, and -tries- to fix the proble. They don't cry about what OBVIOUSLY went wrong, since they lost. They look at themselves and blame themselves, when will Celest do the same? Glomdoring hardly has anyone around that fights, and they run drills to fix that. Celest needs to take action themselves. DO something instead of CRYING for something for a change.

Ok, so, you say don't look back on Narsrim and Tuek, ok, lets look back to recently, Celest had -many- villages and both Serenwilde AND Glomdoring had...what, none or one? Hrm, yet neither has cried out that something went wrong. Serenwilde accepted they had no villages, and Glomdoring went along to fix why they didn't have any. Not saying Glomdoring succeeds or not with trying or anything, just pointing out, Celest is the one to cry help most the time, I notice. Serenwilde when they used to get beat down by Mag fixed the problem. Celest, while I was a citizen and from what I hear now, still only cry for help. Thaddeus and Amaru both tried helping the city yet you all seem utterly helpless.




Glomdoring is willing to let you have Faethorn, haven't you noticed -point cease fire-tap-

Faethorn < The Fae

Once the Shadowdancers stop using their Wicca skills, which drag the fae kicking and screaming from the ether and bind them in shadows, then we'll talk

Seeing as how the fae do not follow you willingly and you have to drug them to lead them to the Avatars of Moon that arguments doesnt hold much water.

Regardless of whether it can be said that we "drug" them (they certainly seem happy enough when the Moon Avatars kiss them on the head and leave them to roam free about the forest), when we summon them no force is involved. They just hop out to help!

Better than killing them, eh?

You don't have to drug them. In fact, we could just kill them, then dunk them in the Well of Souls, and off to the Avatars we go.

Honey is no more a drug to fae than Monster or Bawls to me (or any other psychotic teenager who has a strange craving for energy drinks.) It's more like "Honey cakes?! You're nice!" than "Honey cakes! *robotic voice* take me to your leader." >.> This isn't Acknor, this isn't Estelbar - honestly, argue it that way all you'ld like ICly, but when you start argueing it OOCly, too, I simply resume my serious doubts as to your inability to form complete thought processes.

So, and take a drink from the infamous STFU cup, filled with "Shove it!" juice, right Ceres? Heh. Anyway, point being - they aren't drugged, and don't even try argueing it on the forum. You look like, well, an idiot.

And to further negate this nonsense of "drugging" them, they came to the Wilde begging for help and protection FROM the Glomdoring. I highly, highly doubt "drugging" them would lead them to beg for help.

Well, at least White Hart believes the peace will last:

You ask the White Hart, "Great Spirit, will this uneasy peace between we and
the tainted Glomdoring last much longer?"
He closes his eyes and thinks for a moment.

The White Hart beckons you close, and whispers, "The outlook is decidedly
bright."


But He doesn't know everything, sadly:

You ask the White Hart, "Great Spirit, will they of the tainted forest continue
to try at our patience, bullying us and manuvering us for their own gain?"
He closes his eyes and thinks for a moment.

The White Hart beckons you close, and whispers, "Who can say?"

...You guys worship a Magic 8-Ball? This explains so much.

Do NOT mock the sacred omens of the White Hart!

Wonder if White Hart has noticed Glomdoringers kill Serens in the Skarch.

Rhysus:



Wow I agree with Rhysus.

From what I'm seeing, this discussion is kind of lost, and it has spread to several tangents. I'm seeing everything from "bad core game mechanics" to "Glom started it!" to (ala Seinfeld) "Mags are gay... not that there is anything wrong with it".

Personally, OOC, I'm not seeing anything wrong with anything except for one thing: Everyone wants peace in some sort of fashion, and all ideas are supposed to be tolerated. And this makes sense in this world of ours, the 21st century. Everything's okay, and no one should be judgemental.

But guess what.

This isn't 21st Century Western culture. Everyone's grown up and learned to question authority and everyone has a voice. Great, I love it and I'm glad I'm in a world of toleration (to a degree). And this is where I look to Celest with a little digust.

Whatever happened to your Crusading paladins? What happened to Inquisitors of brutality? You're the light, and you're supposed to kick some ass. I don't think it is the programmers and designer's fault for the game mechanics, its the players.

Celest is losing villiages and moral. Well, BRING IT BACK! Don't bitch and moan, just do it! Rally up your troops and raise your swords. Don't take this crap. You have his idea in your head that the "light" equals peacefulness. And it doesn't. The taint is spread all around, and you have to fight it. Give your players something to fight for, and leave all this passive aggressive garbage behind.

Yeah, Mags like me will come along and say, "You say you're of the light! And look at your violence and brutality! HA! I spit at your "moral values!" But that's the "evil" speaking, that's a citizen of Magnagora trying to kill your resolve, question your ethics so that you succumb when we shove it in your butts. You're supposed to say, "Oh, sorry, I wasn't listening, I was sharpening my blade to shove in your eye."

This is called solving this in game... role playing. Don't have a solution? Make one.

If any of you have played 'Stronghold' you know that when your citizens don't like what's goin' on they leave. I'm not going to call up the offices over there and tell the programmers they're full of it. They'll tell me that I'm workin' it wrong. Don't come here and bitch to the developers, make your own damn solutions. Role play it.

So far, the best idea I've seen is to shut down these damn forums temporarily. I think I've seen 2 people mention it, so I'll third it.

Being random and just found this...

You'll find more distrust of Celest in the Moondancers than any other guild in Serenwilde I'd bet.