There does seem to be two factions regarding why people have left Lusternia: Group 1 says its because opportunities for PK are too strict, and Group 2 says its because there's too much conflict/hostilities. Personally, I think neither of these factions holds "the Answer", though I wouldn't argue that some players have left for one or the other reasons.

However, it does underscore the fine line we must try to find which strikes a balance between all types of players.

There's too much conflict, uncontrolled conflict at that, but if you remove it, it's going to mess up the game.

I think the state we are in now is pretty nice actually. Then again, I am forcefully and thankfully oblivious to things I don't want to be involved with, so there is probably a lot happening I don't know about.

But, I'm happy.

Yeah, I have to say that conflicts and fightings here are rampant and plenty. I've been playing Lusternia for over a year now about, but when compared to Achaea, where I'd played over 5 years, I've seen at least twice as many conflicts and fightings here than there. Not that that's a bad thing or anything, but the problem is that some people enjoy them but not all the time, while some people just want to be left alone.

Also, the fact that the outer planes are non-Avenger protected means people will fight all the time and constantly. And since all the organizations have a plane they cherish but cannot be protected by guards, they'll have to engage in combat against raiders. Like the raids on Celestia and Ethereal lately. The 30 or so guards at Celest's Pool were useless since they can't be stationed near the Supernals to aide them. Take the case of Serenwilde, even when Faethorn is under Moon's control we can't have guards there to help fend off raiders.

Just a little snippet- raiding is the ONLY way to cause Faethorn to revolt. Make the sceptre break itself occasionally, just like the village denizens revolting, and then there's no problem with positioning guards- except for the whole "Faethorn is the link to the higher planes for the Communes" bit. But that would just cause Faethorn to experience mass bloodshed as each side tried to control that, during the periods it revolted. Is that a better solution than what we have? *shrugs* Either way, there's bloodshed and fighting.

Didn't Gwylifar suggested something like that before? Something along the line of Queen Maeve will let Moon or Night control Faethorn for a short duration, afterward she'll reevaluate and forget all enemy status?

Or or, we could just have Faethorn work like village influencing, but possibly with less bloodshed if both sides agreed to it.

I don't want Faethorn turned into a village, that is just tacky.

I don't have any ideas for the moment..but no village please.

It's not just the conflict, it's tne non-optional-ness of it. Your RP choices are: 1: play someone who doesn't care about anything -- whoop-de-doo! or 2: play someone who doesn't have time to do much other than fight -- whoop-de-dee!

Taking out the conflict isn't the answer, in the same way that the cure for someone with heart disease isn't taking out the heart. But that doesn't change the fact that conflict is at the heart of the problem.

I understand what you're saying, Gwylifar--really I do. But I submit that, if the conflict wasn't somewhat "non-optional", then that wouldn't really be conflict. Anyway, we are looking at the overall situation and I'm open to what an example is of "optional" conflict.

What about giving the city/communes the ability to do a mini-Ackleberry?

At the cost of say, 10k power a month, the commune/city can completely peace their city/commune and the planes they are associated with.

Example: Celest activates a withdrawl and Celest, Water, and Celestia are peaced for as long as they are willing to keep it up (and, with water peaced, their ability to gather essence decreases). Further, the withdrawl can be channeled through a village obelisk for an additional 2k power per month per village, while also negating any power-gain from said village.

This would allow, at an incredible drain, the ability for organizations to withdraw themselves from conflict completely. It could still be considered a victory to force your opponent into such a state, because, after all, going through 10k+ power a month is going to take a toll after a while. (far more than anything the killing of supernals is going to manage)

Conflict over non-essential things, perhaps?

Faethorn is pretty essential to your average moondancer, and 'wilder.

We have to go defend when it's raided, like the commune.

For an example, you could find a way to prevent the incessant raiding and crap that goes on there and as such shift attention to alternate places. Combat would still go on, but it wouldn't be over something that people have no real choice to ignore.

Kinda like the catacombs?

Another point - another problem with combat in Lusternia in my eyes is that it's very one sided. Essentially, it always boils down to who has the largest group, and in most cases, that will be Magnagora. Unless they're in a situation that lets us get them into our guards or the like, they have the numbers, might, and skill to keep up against us and wear us down. The only real defeat of Magnagora seems to be when they've either gotten what they want or gotten bored and wandered off. In addition, any new decent fighters are potentially going to be put off by the odds against them and as such either switch sides or just leave. And then this leaves those who don't want to fight unable to not fight because -someone- has to defend the place.

I seem to be better at arranging my thoughts when I'm pissed off

I don't think that's a problem we should pick at by adjusting the system. If the scale shifts the other way, the same problem will arise and tweaking will need to be done again.

If there is a problem with Magnagora's skills, quests and coded setup that makes them stronger then sure, nerf away, but if they are just more organised or more conflict focussed, which is what they seem to be to me, then we should try to sort it out ourselves rather than go for another mothering option, as I've heard it called.

Didn't say it was a problem that could really be fixed by adjusting the system. Just said it was a problem. In addition, I'd say those with potential also are likely to get the training in how to use it in magnagora because their fighters aren't quite so overwhelmed. Again, a problem that can't really be fixed by changes to the system. But it's why I have those 60 credits kept on laysus as a start to my customisation fund rather than spending them on my combat skills, because I know it's not exactly going to help me do anything other than die slightly slower.

How about this though - Remove conglutinate from planes, or all the planes 'cept astral, just use it in village influencing and the like. Suddenly, there's a lot more danger to attacking a plane that you don't have a foothold on. Celestines can get rezzed at the pool on Celest, where they can summon guards. Mag can do similarly at the Nil, Serenwilde can hold resurgem covens in the Ethereal Serenwilde, Glomdoring can immolate at the ravenwood on ethereal.

And suddenly, there's a lot more risk for those who haven't got these options.


Edit: Or perhaps make it from friendly planes that you conglutinate? I.e. etheral for Glom/wilde, nil (maybe earth as well) for mag, celestia (maybe water as well) for celest, and then astral for everyone 'cos that's pretty much neutral ground.

When I speak of it's non-optional-ness, I mean that for each and every person, it's almost impossible to justify not getting involved, individually -- not that it's necessary that someone do it, but that it's necessary that everyone do it.

This is to some extent caused by the players; in particular, it's worth noting that part of Magnagora's organizational strength comes in part from almost (not quite, but almost) requiring everyone to participate in some way, which sets the bar making it harder for the other nations not to follow suit.

But it's also in large part because of the background. Everyone has very very strong reasons why they should step up, why it's their duty to step up. No, I don't have an idea for how this could be changed; I think it's too deep in the warp and weft of Lusternia to casually change, it's part of the fundamental design. Other than reducing or eliminating conflict entirely which might be worse than the problem.

The closest thing I can see for a way to address it is to make the conflict more intermittent. Trouble is, bring that up and people say "landmarking! boo!". Two logical fallicies in that refutation: first, even if landmarking sucked, not every element of it is necessarily going to suck when taken to a new context; and second, even if landmarking sucked, does that mean it sucked more than it would have if landmarking had been all the time? Just because Achaea used an idea badly doesn't mean the idea is innately without merit. Of course interstitial conflict is bound to arise, but it can be set up to be "someone's" duty instead of "everyone's" duty a little more readily.

Either that, or don't change it, because there's also an audience of people who like it like it is, and why shouldn't they have a MUD to play? Maybe the only change needed is to make it a little clearer on the packaging what's inside the box.

I think there should be more home-field advantages. As it stands, the raiders and the defenders when planes such as Nil, Celestia, and Faethorn are attacked are both on equal footing. The fact that the defenders begin with a demesne is negated by the attacker's advantage of suprise. Raids where the defenders have no special advantage for being the defender means that if one organization becomes stronger than the others, they can just crush everyone, and nothing the others do can really stop it.


Secondly, I wish the game lent itself more to City vs Commune conflict - as I stated before, everything in the game, RP and mechanics, forces Light vs Taint. The fact that communes need enchantments and cities need alchemy, the fact that there are no City vs Commune conflict quests, the fact that the Cities are each designed to be the antithesis of one another, and the Communes as well....


And lastly, I think that the plot of Lusternia has completely ignored the gamestate. I see this as a major problem, though in the long run, it is fine, I suppose. But in the short run, it really, really sucks. Noone can honestly argue that Magnagora isn't the strongest faction in the game. Seren was kinda holding our own against them, but barely. The Kethuru plot gave massive amounts of power to Celestian and Magnagoran nexii, primarily Magnagora's, and shafted the Seren - why? Because Coning is much worse than Linking. (Coning should channel more Power faster than the other methods of linking, as it takes THREE of us, if you ask me, but that's neither here nor there). All the Avatars/Supernals/etc were slain. Magnagora and New Celest had theirs revived in a couple hours. It took us three or four days to revive White Hart, and we had to work constantly during that time. The plot ended with Magnagora gaining an ally, the Serenwilde gaining an arch nemesis, and the Moondancers losing litterally half their active members, including half of their secretaries. I do not know of the other guilds of the Basin, but that REALLY hurt us. So, the end result being, Magnagora is doing even better, and we're doing worse. And now Magnagora has Psionics, and our Druids do not have their new skillset - why? Because Psionics was ready, and it made sense to release it now plotwise. End result? Magnagora strengthened.

I'm not saying that the plot is DESIGNED to do this - I'm just saying that it feels very much like the plot is ignoring the current gamestate entirely, and just releasing things, doing things, when they're ready. The game is not balanced - not because of the mechanics or the system, but because of the players, numbers and skill. This is fine and expected, but I would have expected the plot to balance things, as a balanced fight is so much more fun than when one side just wins all the time. Please don't think I'm saying you guys are doing a bad job - the plot has been awesome. I just think a more careful consideration of what it will do given the current gamestate is rather important, as these changes aren't being made in some vacuous environment - each change effects the CURRENT game balance, and if the change/plot isn't working towards a balance, perhaps it should be changed or delayed slightly to lessen the impact, or some such?

Actually, for the record, if I FORESTCAST FOREST on Celestia, *but don't meld it right away*, it decays within the matter of a minute or so. I imagine the same is true on Nil.

And that doesn't happen in Faethorn? Why?