*shrug* Poor guy did some work that didn't make it. If I'd taken the time to do something like that (not that I did, I'm a horrible artist) and I thought it was great, and it didn't get accepted, I'd feel bad as well. Maybe he comes off ranting, but artists tend to put more than time into their work, they put in tender love and care!

Don't worry, if I don't win bardic this month I'll write, like, thirty threads whining about it.

Maybe that can be your bardic, Guido. Call it performance art.

Incidentally, while we're nitpicking the results, does Aleron's poem really have to do with Lusternia? I mean, I know I can't tell if it's a good poem or not because I'm lacking the "poetry gene" (very, very few poems really do anything for me, this is a failing in me, not in poetry), but if you took the title off seems like no one would guess it was Lusternian, and even with the title, you could publish it in a million places and it'd fit in all of them -- unless I'm missing something. Which I might well be. Someone shine some light on me?

Meh. I'd just like to say this sort of thread definitely takes the edge off of being win-happy.

The thing is, taking the title off a poem is often times like taking the lines out of a sketch - it can often turn it into something abstract. The title is often a tool in poetry to give the initial impression (though, whether that impression will be flowed with or against is depending on the emotions involved and sought). Poetry is used to elicit emotion and imagery. The title is a key part of that, as it sets the bigger stage up. If I had taken the time to describe a spectre and whatever else, it would have detracted from the actual poem. The alternative to this? In poetry, you use the title as part of the poem, to set the stage. Its the story of a spectre who laments over the loss of Marilynth.

I'm sorry if I didn't spell it out, but given that these bardics aren't judged by only one person, I feel confident enough to say that the subtle approach I took was well enough linked to deserve what it got.

Hell, in all defense, if Kaileigh's picture didn't have a title, and you saw it out on a street corner, you woud not say "Hey, look, Lusternia art!" you'd just think it was some generic fantasy art.

Anyway, I think the nitpicking is fairly rude, to be honest, and while I personally don't mind defending my poem, but, I think the overall sentiments towards the results in general are a bit rough, well, unless the author was a member of what seems to be Lusternia's own private mIRC 'cool kids' clique. Meh. Reminds me of Highschool.

Aww Aleron, don't let your win-happy die!

Your poem was awesome and made me lament the fact that I can't write poetry.

Second place? *sighs* At least I'm getting compensation from Richter. I must have worked on that piece for 3 cumulative days over a 2 weeks... I'm curious to as what standard these pieces are being judged...

Yours may have been flashier than Kaileigh's, but, I'm afraid I would have voted for hers too. Shiny CG effects aren't everything, and I think its incredibly rude and uncalled for to cast a shadow of doubt on the judging process just because you didn't get first place.

I do it all the time. That's how things work on this planet.

I think the answer is that it doesn't fit the rules of the bardic, because if it did, I can imagine there'd be a lot more saying why, and a lot less flailing about with wildly defensive comments, none to the point, and few with even a hint of substance. "IRC clique"? Three names in eight -- and I doubt the judges even know who uses IRC. "Someone else is almost as bad?" That's never a defense of anything. The closest we got to an answer is that the title is necessary, but since even with the title it could go almost anywhere and fit in perfectly, that's still not an answer.

I'm sure the poem is excellent, and kudos to you for that. But this isn't an excellent poetry thing, it's an excellent Lusternian poetry thing. Someone out there spent a lot of time and effort making sure to follow the rules in HELP BARDIC, and for his or her time, didn't even get his poem seen. It that means nothing, then we shouldn't have those rules. If we have those rules, they should be honored. And if they're being honored, there's nothing rude or onerous about asking the question. Can't have it both ways; the question is still out there and it won't go away from handwaving.

Look, I'm in a ****ing bad mood as it is, and I don't need someone coming along and pointing this out.

Insofar as "Shiny CG effects" go shut the hell up, apparently you have no eye for digital media. In case you couldn't tell I said I spent 3 cumulative days on it. Guess how many hours is that, or can you not multiply either? First of all, I have to sit down and look at Richter's rules for his description. Second, I have to take that and make a core sketch. Then I have to design the armour. From this point I have to put it in a scanner and make a Photoshop file of it. Then I layer it and start painting it by hand.

Yes. I have to do it just like someone with a f'ing paintbrush does.

Shiny CG? It isn't Computer Generated. -I- GENERATED IT. I didn't use any flashy computer modeling software. I didn't use prefabricated coding.

I made it by hand. Every damn stroke. Don't downplay my work.

Secondly, it was an idle question. I have every f'ing right to question what guildlines a piece of art is judged by. I'm not casting a shadow on the judging process, don't be an ass. I've been in art contests before, I've had my art -graded- in a college coures, and I've been hired for my artwork.

There are such things as standards of judgements. Now sit down, I'm not in the mood for an attack on my integrity.

Edit: Language- Richter

Take a look at my signature. Even though you can't see details, you can tell he put an awful lot of work into it.

First - I wasn't implying the judges had anything to do with IRC, I was implying the people complaining sure as hell did.

Second - It wasn't an "almost as bad" defense, it was a "clearly you don't know you're talking about" defense.

Third - It had everything to do with Lusternia. Just because it didn't scream "I R A POEM 4 LUSTERNIA/The flowers are pretty on Avechna's peak/I so do heart the Rockeater's glow/How oh how did Kethuru get loose?/And attempt to ruin it all" does not make it any less Lusternian. You said yourself you don't know jack about poetry, so, um, who are you to say it doesn't follow the guidelines?

The inspiration was Lusternian.
The image it portrayed was Lusternian.

Wtf else is there? You can say "Well, if I did this and that to it, it wouldn't be about Lusternia!" Well, technically, if your Aunt had testicles, she'd be your uncle, so, don't be stupid about it.

Everything is subjective, and just because you don't see the correlation to something, doesn't mean jack. The picture of Richter was ONLY a picture of Richter because it was TITLED Richter.

Just because YOU have been pissy lately about everything does NOT give you the right to attack other people's work simply because yours didn't win.

And as for the artwork, yes, he may have put alot of work into it, but that doesn't make it better. The hand holding Tetra is incredibly akward and hurts the overall quality, for example.

Well, we got some insinuations about my motivations for asking the question, some temper-tantrums, and a whole lot of "it does! really!" but nothing I can see that actually answers the question ("how?"). And I guess we're not going to.

Aleron, ad hominem and handwaving and temper-tantrums may distract some people from the lack of an answer, but only the people who wouldn't've asked the question in the first place. If you're confident in your case, you'd do much better to simply state it calmly and clearly, and let it rest on its merits. When you thrash around trying to change the subject it only makes it look like you don't have a solid answer, and draws attention to its absence. This is basic rhetorical technique.

That said, barring the possibility that the judges might weigh in on how this fits the "uniquely Lusternian" bit in HELP BARDIC, or why it doesn't need to (particularly since the announce post, I've just learned, makes a special point of it!), I guess we've gotten all we can out of the question.

Gwylifar, you are a piece of work. You've been doing nothing but throwing tantrums over the last week, and then you have the nerve to look down on me for getting defensive over a poem I wrote?

I didn't throw a temper-tantrum, I simply said that you don't know what you're talking about. You are being disrespectful to the admin and me, and I have every right to take it as such, since you are making it clear that you just want to be a jerk in the last few days before you leave.

With the title and in proper context it IS uniquey Lusternian. You want a solid answer to something that can't be pinned down like that - its the entire point of poetry. What means something to the writer might be different between a group of 10 readers. You just don't get it - I -can't- give you the answer you're desperatey lording over my head. It doesn't exist. It is Lusternian because it is. It is poetry that was inspired by Lusternia and written to elicit an emotion based around a Lusternian event (the loss of Princess Marilynth).

I'm sorry if you want more, but it just doesn't exist. That is the -point- of poetry. It is based in emotions, not in cold logic. I'm sorry if in your current anger at your failed attempts at RP because of conflict that you can't understand that, however, that's the only answer I can give - you can base things on the heart as well as the head.

It isn't me trying to dodge the question, as i'm sure you'll want to say for a 3rd time, it is simply the only answer availble.

My college lit teacher used an example of how people read poetry, and it fits this situation really well.

Some people will sit on the beach and watch the poem go by on waterskis, waving at them. They'll take it for what it is and pull the meaning out of it that they see.

Others will tie it to a chair and beat it with a gardening hose trying to make it give up information that it honestly doesn't have.

Its a pity you refuse to give up the second approach, however, you're just going to have to accept, especially since you admitted you don't know jack about poetry, that maybe you just need to sit back and read it from a Lusterniann point of view, title and all. If you can't, then that is completely your failing, and I won't apologize for it.

Yeah I should stop reading this I keep getting this 'Kaileigh needs to go die' vibe.


On a somewhat related topic. Why do you guys keep bringing up your education and they you get paid for what you do? Does that make work by someone that does it for pleasure instead of pay any less valid?

Guess what gentlemen.. I don't get paid, I don't have "publishers" scrambling over my door step. I never took an art course outside of Visual art one in High school. Does that make what I do any less artisitic? You have to devalue what I do in public just because you didn't win? I may be sad when I don't get first place but I do NOT go around on forums and group chats and point at people an say they suck I should have won.

Hmmmm, yeah. No ad hominem in that, nosiree.

Might want to read here sometime.

Don't mind them, Kaileigh, I would have given yours my vote too. It was the best in my opinion. If they can't deal with it, its their problem, not yours.

And Gwylifar, when are you leaving like you said you would? I hope its soon, because i've quickly lost every once of respect I had for you. Its funny that I thought Exarius was just a lunatic after I discussed the Pride/Tribe with him... now I realize you really are that big of a jerk to drive people to dislike you that much. Just stop. If you don't like how the contest is run, don't enter it - its that simple.

Personally, I just think this is HORRIBLE sportsmanship, and I know if I was running a contest like this, I'd be tempted to strip any prize you were given for the sheer audacity of your reactions.

Kaileigh, I don't think they're knocking you for lack of education or the fact you don't get paid, I think they're irritated because some of them -did- do this stuff in college, and -have- gotten paid. Heck, that would irritate me too.

I'm not sure anyone said you didn't deserve to win, and I'm certainly not. I think they're just frustrated.

I left on the 30th of July. Strip the prize, I don't care, because all that matters is principle: the principle that the rules mean something. If it's audacity to ask that they be respected, then I'd rather not be honored by them. And if all you can do is keep up the personal attacks instead of addressing the actual subject matter, I don't want your respect. Enjoy your "last word", I'm sure you'll find enough vitriol in it to make up the absence of substance, again.