Sometime today, a group of people killed Thoril while he was crowned. At Thoril were 25 level 2 guards: 15 frost hags, 10 centaur warriors. He also has two personal dwarven sentaries. However, he was somehow managed to be slain in a village that was distorted with 20 guards posted at the sole entrance, 5 at the nexus, and another 5 within range of coming to the aide of those.

A couple Serens were about at the time and the only people who were slain were Mell and Athana. After trying to kill Ethilwen who had 8 level 2 guards, I ask the question wtf?

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You thrust your palm towards Ethilwen Varrim, the Beldame of Southgard and a burst of silver light shoots out from it burning into Ethilwen Varrim, the Beldame of Southgard, who cries out in pain.

Ethilwen Varrim, the Beldame of Southgard begins to yell for help.
Ethilwen Varrim, the Beldame of Southgard begins to wield a battle axe.
A dwarf sentry springs to Ethilwen Varrim, the Beldame of Southgard's defence.
A dwarf sentry springs to Ethilwen Varrim, the Beldame of Southgard's defence.

4026h, 5028m, 3408e, 0p, 24704w xkdb-

Twirling a battle axe in front of her as though it were a baton, Ethilwen Varrim, the Beldame of Southgard suddenly hacks at you, sinking the blade into your flesh.
A shadowlord widowrider orders his great spider to attack, causing it to lunge
and slam its mandibles into your chest.
A shadowlord widowrider orders his great spider to attack, causing it to lunge and slam its mandibles into your chest.
A shadowlord widowrider orders his great spider to attack, causing it to lunge
and slam its mandibles into your chest.
A shadowlord widowrider screams the name of Mother Night as he rears his great
spider and slams his wicked lance into your chest.
A shadowlord widowrider screams the name of Mother Night as he rears his great spider and slams his wicked lance into your chest.
A shadowlord widowrider draws a wicked blade and slashes it at you, slicing
deep into your flesh.
A shadowlord widowrider screams the name of Mother Night as he rears his great spider and slams his wicked lance into your chest.
A shadowlord widowrider orders his great spider to attack, causing it to lunge and slam its mandibles into your chest.
1031h, 5028m, 3408e, 0p, 24704w xkdb-

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Now, let's do some math...

For the sake of being simplistic, we'll assume that Ethilwen does roughly the same amount of damage as one shadowlord widowrider. This means in one round, I was hit by 9 denizens (8 guards + ethilwen) for ~3000 damage in one round.

3000/9 = 333.333 damage per guard

Now given that Thoril had 25 guards plus himself (who we will assume again is relatively the same strength as one guard) we get:

333.333 X 26 (25 guards + thoril) = 8666.658 damage per round

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Whereas I realize that there are people who can take more damage than a Moondancer with full defenses, there aren't too many. Even with full plate, Terenas is still takes roughly the same amount of damage that I do. If we go to the far extreme and consider an Ur'guard in full plate with putrefaction, I sincerely doubt they have anymore than a 33% physical damage reduction over me (and when I say extreme, I mean extreme). However, let's assume that is the case:

333.333 * 0.33 = ~110

333.333 - 110 = 233.33 X 26 = 5806 damage per round

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Given I am a Mugwump with +3 equilibrium, I recover equilibrium in aproximately 3 seconds. After timing guards, they appear to hit every 2-3 seconds. This means that chances are, you are going to be hit by two rounds before you could even exit the room. Thus, we are talking about a fairly high end range of damage:

5806 - 11,612 damage possible in one swipe at Thoril (remember, this only for someone that is uber tanky, it would be much higher for the general population).

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Thoril Falgirn, Thane of Rockholm appears to be extraordinarily strong.

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And to the master question: How do you kill anything with this much damage being dealt per round? I honestly don't know and it makes no sense to me. Even the strongest of persons should fall in two rounds of that kind of damage (the amount of time they could probably get in one attack). Furthermore, when you enter a room and attack a denizen, all of the guards immediately target that on person. I sincerely think something is fishy. It could be a number of things. I would be very interested for someone to post a log of when Thoril was slain. It would clear up some confusion (as in, the actual damage the guards were dealing, etc).

I'm thinking beckon. Room beckon, the one that you can't stop.

I was pondering about this with some other people and we wonder:

Commune/City guards only attack enemies to my knowledge. If you are not an enemy and attack a denzien loyal to the a Commune/City, do the guards jump in and protect? I know they will as soon as the denizen is dead (because at this point, they are branded an enemy), but do they beforehand? This is probably something Hajamin/Roark might know best.

If Thoril was slain by abusing beckon (which is broken), then someone needs to have their arse peaced for a very long time. As it stands, you do not lose equilibrium or balance if beckon fails, thus you can whore it. I've had Torak beckon me like 7 times in a row till it worked. If Nejii is correct, you could manipulate this by doing the classic attack/yank (except for a whole party) where a group was sent into attack the target and immediately beckoned out. The only thing I see that may be a problem in this theory is how the guards are situated.

20 of the 25 guards at Thoril are on standguard permanent. This was to stop people from trying to lure them away; however, the other 5 should have headed south and continued to attack. I honestly don't think Mell or Athana could even tank 5 guards (considering that I cannot tank 8)... logs anyone? This is getting more and more interesting.

Well, like you were saying on DoK, I believe also that some of the raiders weren't enemied at the time. The commune guards wont assist if a villager is in trouble and or if the attacker isn't an enemy of the commune. If they do, I've never seen it. Only the denizen guards.

I wouldn't mind seeing a log of it, but it was probably just a bunch of tanky Mags hitting at Thoril until he died. Thoril isn't hard to take out.

I'm hearing that beckon was FIXED and that it should work like it does now. Unstoppable. Can anyone confirm?

Well, you probably have better information on beckon than I do, but my understanding was that beckon as a whole has been bugged and talked about as much as any skill, and no changes have been made. Although I haven't seen an official statement that the skill works as intended (Gods, I wish we could get these more iften), and this sounds like a bug, I'm not sure what we're supposed to do when skills we bug aren't changed for ages...anyway...somewhat not on topic

The following guards could have been tanked by everyone else in the group though...and if they attack the guards, will the dwarves jump in? Or could they focus on guards, then kill the dwarves?

(I have no idea, wasn't there, so I'm just speculating)

It was not by abusing anything...Mell reflected me I wasn't enemied to Seren (neither was she) so the guards didn't hit us until after I killed him and we both prayed. The end

Thoril isn't extremely difficult to take out, yes; however, that is because he isn't all the strong offensively. Defensively, he is the same "might" or whatever as a level 2 guard, who can take several hits. Furthermore, he shields when he is low on health... buying him at least another round from those guards.

However, I would think that lots of people would have been slain in that process. It isn't exactly easy to get in/out of Rockholm when then you'd have to pass by another 30 guards to get out the door + the 5 who are set on only standguard chasing.

Athana... read what you wrote and post again. Reflect stops 2 attacks. You should have being hit at least 26 - 52 times per time she could reflect.

EDIT:

My mistake, I read too fast.

Silly Narsrim




They didn't attack anyone till those two were enemied if I recall correctly.


Thus. ONLY Thoril hitting.

Reread what she wrote. She was not enemied, so the guards did not attack her.

Read what I said Narsrim the guards didn't hit us until AFTER we were enemied by killing Thoril.

How many other people were there?

Just them.

Just her and Mell.

EDIT: Gah the ninja

It sounds like two people, versus Thoril and the two sentries, as the guards were not involved until Thoril died.

Edit: Ninja'd twice in a row? Darn it...

Well, people... let's put it together: This is a serious bug. I would go so far to say that if you knew that guards did not assist a loyal denizen until you killed it and was branded an enemy, you probably have enough sense to realize that something is foul.

The entire point of guards at a denizen are to protect it. The only angle that you can justify as to why this "was not abuse" as you claim is from an OOC standpoint: I didn't get flagged an enemy for the guards to recognize me until something died. If you character acted upon this motivation, it was simply bad roleplaying if not more.

I see no problem here. Two non-enemies were not being attacked by guards. COMMUNE guards, mind you. They killed Thoril, got enemied, and DIED. What more do you want?