Really? In Imperian, grace lasted as long as you liked, probably because PK was totally open and that remaining under grace was sometimes the only way to get anything done without being attacked. I was working under the assumption that grace worked the same here.

If it's true, and grace is stripped after ten minutes, doesn't it make the whole argument a bit defunct? Ten minutes is hardly enough time to do anything at all.

It's enough to go steal the corpses from under the noses of your enemies that are still killing them so they can't eat them so they can be raised. (For example.) When you conglutinate. Y'know, that sort of thing.

Can anyone give me a definition of what "abusing grace" is, then?

I'd have thought using grace to gain an offense advantage during a combat situation files as abuse, but if using it to avoid a demesne to get past it and attack from the other side if you couldn't have done that without grace isn't abuse, what is then?

I mean, I can live with that, I'd just like to know what to go by then...

I agree with David. Without knowing the intention of divine grace, it's impossible to judge what is allowed and what isn't, and what changes should be brought it. It would also give us an idea whether or not this ten-minute rule (which to my eyes seems extremely silly) makes sense, and if any future no-transversing rule would also make sense.

I joined Achaea about...2 years ago and then back into February or so. If you are really bored, sometime, go back to the Achaean newsposts then and find the post about the grace limit being reduced to 15 minutes from infinity, because I can't remember what the exact reason they gave was. Maybe that will explain it a bit better, but I am fairly sure that the intent was to block rezzkilling, so pretty much anything else is abuse of it.

help grace
6.14 GRACE

If you have had to resort to praying to the Fates in order to regain your life, then you will be given what is called Grace. Those who walk in grace will find themselves unable to either harm or be harmed by most things. There are some of the more aggressive mobiles in the world that can harm you through divine grace. In order to rid yourself of this protection, you must type REJECT GRACE. Though Grace is a gift from the Gods, they will not bear you a grudge for rejecting this grace. Typing GRACED will show you a list of those on-line who walk in Grace.

Grace expires within a fairly short time after receiving it (15 minutes), hether you REJECT GRACE or not.

There is a special kind Grace granted to those who just passed through the Portal of Fate called the Grace of Innocence. This will last until they reject it or they reach level 20. See HELP INNOCENCE.

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When in doubt: HELP

That...doesn't actually explain anything at all...

I suppose that's because Achaea has a system to protect players from unwanted PK. In Imperian, grace is the system to stop players from unwanted PK.

If that's the case, it's evident that it hasn't worked for Lusternia, because this abuse is still going on. It needs reviewing, and adding the inability to transverse while graced might do the trick. Though, would this stop similar abuse on prime, if it ever happened? Perhaps something more subtle is in order.

I think it pretty much boils down to you have 15 minutes to any non-aggressive action - end of story.

Yes, but we'd already established that. What we're trying to understand know is the reason why you only have 15 minutes.

I would imagine it has to do with Lusternia having other systems (as you indicated above) in place that deal with issues such a PK. Furthermore, it is -extremely- annoying that people can run around in open villages and influence for a mere 15 minutes while graced, I cannot imagine indefinately.

If I'm perfectly honest, grace seems a bit superfluous to me. If someone kills you the moment you pop out of the portal of fate, you get to either curse them or vengeance them. If you teleport back to a city or village that's being raided, you're going to die fast once that 15 minutes is up - it hardly seems worth it, apart from to give you time to qq or run to avechna. And that sure doesn't take 15 minutes.

The only possible problem I can see is repeat killings as you step out of the portal. Grace need only last 3 or 4 minutes for you to either teleport away or run to the Avenger, though.

The portal is a safe room so even that doesn't work that well.

Mostly grace just annoys me when I def up again, prepare to kick arse in a team and get spammed with "you are still graced and cannot do that" messages in influencing or something.

1. Incorrect. If you slay someone in enemy territory (which includes enemy NPC territory such as enemied to Mesa, you don't have the option to vengeance or karma curse. This is primarily the case.

2. If a village under the possession of your commune/city is being raided and you die there, you conglutinate instead of pray. If it is an open village, you can use this time to get there, setup somewhere, declare sanctuary, etc.

I'm aware that you conglutinate from villages, but that doesn't change my argument: it doesn't take 15 minutes to qq or run to Avechna, even from a nexus, and those are the only things, assuming that grace is to prevent immediate death on resurrection, that you'd need protecting for.

In fact, seeing as nexuses are generally safe areas anyway, I can see an argument for not getting grace after you conglutinate from a village.

In short, the only legal use of grace, in its current form, is to give you time to run to the Avenger or to the caves or to teleport or quit before you get killed again (your enemy territory point is fair enough, given this, and I accept that as a strength of grace as it stands). It currently allows you to do things other than this - thus it needs adjusting.

Grace is fine. Kthnx.

Also, several honors quests make you lose grace (At least, Old Celest's does!) at certain parts. Sooo, your "questing to 100" theory is gone, most deff.

Grace should only come from resurgem/rezz abilities, including immolate. Praying does need it, sadly, to prevent portal-campers.

Okay, okay, I accept that removing grace entirely has issues. But if there are problems with grace as it stands, even its vastly reduced form, it still needs adjusting.

A lot of things need adjusting. I'm more concerned about skillsets, events, and serious skill adjustments that may or may not need to be made.

As well, Envoy reports were due recently (or are due literally any moment here). Coders are busy. Grace problems, as far as I can tell, probably fall in line with a typo in a certain type of weevil's description.

Yes. I'm not saying that it needs fixing immediately, partly because I haven't experienced the problem myself and partly because I understand that.

Simply because something is going far down on the list, however, is not a reason not to add it.

Add it or not, it may never see the light of day.