The problem as always is that there is no in-game reason to change it. You can say all you want that people should stop caring about the cause that hundreds of years of history impel them to care about, but they need a reason.

Is your solution for Greenpeace to stop caring about protecting the environment because constant fighting is wearying? As I'm posting this on V-J Day, maybe I should ask if you would have laughed at Winston Churchill when he said "We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender."?

It's very disingenuous of you to try to blur the line between IC and OOC. IC, the Moondancers have a thousand reasons to defend and protect the fae, and no reasons not to. OOC, the players are weary of this; when they signed up they thought "ooh, a nice purpose", they didn't realize it was someday going to mean an endless alternation of tedium and agony, they had no way to know that would happen. They've been begging for an IC reason to change their RP for months now (ideally one that is a change to their purpose, not just an elimination of their purpose).

It's all well and good for you to sit there and say "just change it"; it saves you having to make any kind of useful suggestion for how to do so. Instead of looking for a way to address the problem you just pretend it doesn't exist and berate people who can see it for being able to see it.

When your role is protecting someone, the existence of more threats against your charges does not provide RP reasons to stop protecting them. Quite the opposite. The existence of Glomdoring only gives the Moondancers even more reason to do what they've been doing since the days of Ellindel. You're not the IC reason to change. And until some IC reason to change comes along, no one is going to change. The closest thing to that is when people leave the game.

Don't mind Shiri, he doesn't know much about BDSM.

No Gregori, Maeve said she doesn't care who controls her fae, glomdoring or serenwilde.

The only thing that needs to be done by the admins, is to have the fae declare that they don't care who controls them either, the rest is up to you.

The fact that Maeve is apathetic about who controls Faethorn, is not a reason to end conflict. It promotes it. It means Serenwilde is justified in protecting the Fae, because Maeve doesn't care, and Glomdoring is justified in binding the Fae, because Maeve doesn't care.

Why not just have shadowbound fae in Ethereal Glomdoring, free fae in Ethereal Serenwilde, and make Faethorn external to both communes? The Moon/Night control quest was nice in theory, but it just doesn't look like its working.

- Raiding to convert fae between the two communes can still go on, but the ease is put back on par with cherubs/demons. Makes it fair and even as all 'treasured' loyals remain in their respective domains.

- Faethorn is always going to be a place of conflict between the two communes, but one side doesn't have to be given the advantage by mechanics. Faethorn is important to both communes for different reasons, so as a possessable resource it will be constantly fought over regardless of what minor adjustments are made. If there's no real reason for one side to 'hold' it, then the bloodlust is likely to scale back towards only reacting to severe external threats (ie, killing guards/maeve).

- Since I expect there still has to be a moon/night quest, it could be reduced to something more about competition WITH each other, rather than competition AGAINST each other. "Whomever brings my people the most tribute this year shall receive my favour, and I shall dispatch a host of champions to defend your borders."

They're not. We've been trying to change ours for OOC months. Auseklis created such horrible rank titles, they make me want to cry GR3 moondancers are called nymph molestors o_O So, yeah, those titles aren't player chosen, except maybe they were for the Glomdoring guilds.

I'll rephrase it..

Your roleplay is causing neverending conflict, you don't want to change your roleplay... but you whine there's too much conflict?

Either change your roleplay, or deal with the consequences, the amount of conflict is entirely in your hands... you can't say it isn't fair, because you've stomped Glomdoring into the ground and killed everyone in it, be they fighters or not, for days on end, from the day it got founded. The ties just turned when Magnagora started helping us more intensely.

The difference is between player and character. I rarely let metagaming dictate what my characters do. Bending the opinions and lifeviews of a character just to fit the OOC situation is, well, lame, and not RPing, in my eyes. Small allowances can be made, but completely warping the character's beliefs just for OOC things? No.

EDIT: To put it another way, I'd sooner suicide and make a new character than do that. Because, well, that's essentially what I'm doing.

Changing your roleplay to lessen conflict really isn't hard, just start treating faethorn for what it actually is, a neutral ground between the ethereal forests you're linked to, instead of your property.

Your roleplay of claiming Faethorn solely for yourself and "protecting" the wild Fae, didn't make much sense from the start. Just like claiming the Faeling race as serenwilde property didn't make any sense.

You're creating conflict just to whine about it.

o_O

You know, aruging with you is useless? About as useless as arguing with us Most arguments about RP are such. So, how about we both drop it, rather than making a five page long chain of backandforth posts, all of which make the same exact points over and over again?

See, Thorgal, I'd love to agree with you, and change something. I really would. The treaty was designed mostly to stop us stomping on Glomdoring for a bit while they got a breather, and I supported that. But there has to be some sort of justification. As annoyed as I was that Narsrim kept questioning me that the treaty ever should have been started, you could justify it to a certain extent with "we needed a breather from Glomdoring because the two organisations at once was more than we could deal with, and the pressure from Magnagora was sporadic and fierce rather than constant and niggling, so it was less of a killer of morale," etc. etc.

But to mostly abandon the stance we've both been given by history and by the continuation we've done of said history in modern times by just one day going, "Sod it, the bloody fairies can cope for themselves, if they die they deserve to get shadowbound anyway since Maeve said so" without any IC reason (i.e the Fae rejecting our protection) is something you really can't do because it just kills the environment, it's too much of a warping. And then the guild's left adrift, too. We've got to have a purpose of some sort, it's why the Moondancers are as good as they are. If the admin have to change it to kill off the conflict then we'll make do, but -we- can't do it.

You are just looking at it from your point of view, be less selfish and try stepping in Glomdoring's shoes for a change? What would it be like if we didn't have Magnagora?

The same could be said about you. What would the Moondancers be without the Fae? The protectors of the Fae is who we are, and who we've always been. Changing that now, on a whim (at least, that is how it would seem IC), is just dumb.

Then what about the shadowdancers?

Right, hence the eternal conflict spawned by roleplay.

So, you don't want it to change, but you don't want conflict either, you just want Glomdoring to never set a foot in Faethorn.

I seriously hope you aren't of the opinion that this is realistic and fair?

Umm, no. You apparently haven't read a word I've said.

I don't like the situation at all, but it is the way the RP lore of the game is designed. It is part of the socio-political meta that I loathe so much that this game's mechanics and backstory foster, and I see no solution for it born of the players, except having their characters act completely out of character. I see it as the result of highly sadisitic design descisions on the part of the Admins, and I rant about it all the time, even though I have no solution to propose. The Glomdoring is doing exactly what they should be doing in my opinion (well, except for the part where they had geomancers Taint faethorn o_O).

I am a bit confused. Admittedly, more of my time is spent working with the novices and such things than on Ethereal but ... when has Serenwilde said Faethorn is "our territory" rather than someplace currently loyal to us, allied, calls to us for help? I do remember those from elsewhere (Glomdoring included) having no problem passing through to the Elemental gates and back, just as long as they announced themselves. The only reason to "forbid" entrance/presence of others in Faethorn is to protect the Fae, a reason we cannot give up without abandoning who we are. But ... that's been stated already.

The thing is, it can be solved by players, you just don't want to, you want the admins to solve it... preferably in your favour.

That is blanketly not true.

I'm just not going to throw away 20+ game years of RP on a whim with no IC reason for it