Celestines are fine with or without power. The difference is the type of combat you are involved in. Amaru for instance used to partake in alot of group combat... and that does require a great deal of power to setup for since you need all your tankiness and ability to kill people fast. In one on one fighting, Celestines are fine without using Wrathand the big power skills. As a Celestine I used Fool (3p), had my angel set to one affliction usually and went for a soft lock, usually using Heretic (3p) then Absolving or Judgement (so 5-8p) and that usually let me take down most people, like Murphy last time me and him fought before I switched. Now that's not so bad say compared to Narsrim, who needs his ents (all us wiccans do) and Drawdown, which to start out takes 22p. These are just base uses of course...most people do like deffing up alot more than this and in such cases use a great deal more of power, but to kill someone it usually doesn't require much.

Wrath, enigma, heretic sequence, numen, re-fooling, quickening..

The only person I've really needed Wrath, Quickening and Inquisition against was Daevos... Didn't need them against Valek, Ixion,Murphy or most others when I was on that side. I never used Numen either unless in a group fight where I was the target. Like I said, to kill most people, Fool, Heretic(not infidel or Inquisition usually needed), and absolve or Judgement. Killing as a Guardian is extremly easy

That's celestines you're talking about, not guardians as a whole. I don't find killing as a nihilist that easy.

Nihilist is a great class. It has a lot of potential - if people aren't using it right, the class itself can't be blamed.

I just went over Nihilist ideas with Thorgal and with the right skills it's just as easy being a Nihilist. Infact, in some cases it's better, depending on how you like to fight.

Wrath is just useful. No, you don't technically need it, but it makes things easier. Same as any other defence.

Quickening is to pull off manakills if you can't beat their sip (happens to me alot).

Inquisition is to make liches stay down.

Numen is to tank those 1.1k head-lunges.

Hehe!

I notice Amaru has taken the recruiting out of his forum title and signature.

I'm underpowered. Really I am. Torture, wrack and doublewhammy should be free of power requirements. Yeah.

And yes, yes we are. Even I know that, and I'm the worst fighter ingame. Just fool and enigma burns power like candy, as does doublewhammy. Oh, and LIch if you've got it. And when you can be arsed, scourge. Yeah. Other than that.

You had the handmaiden last time we fought whren you were a celestine! I believe you tossed soulless while i was blacked out..grr!

And as for ceres saying knight offence is easy to code, she obviously hasn't seen my bonecrusher system that visibly and accuratley tracks which afflictions are healed, and which body parts of the enemy are down and ready, etc etc. I'll dig up an old ansi log later

EDIT: Like always, i don't see ceres making full use of her skills. What about soulless? what about trying for an inquisition? Did she even use rebounding and parry/stances properly in that fight?

I absolved ya, without Numen up, even though I had to leave the room once cause I didn't expect you to nail me so fast.

ah yeh, absolved but blackout still hurt me bad, I reckon i'd have stood a way better chance without that stupid maiden

If I had inquisitioned you, you would have either just ran again, or died and whined for weeks afterwards.

Since there is no way to tell if someone is applying regeneration or health, say, when you get the message, and since anyone cloaked does not even give that message, there is no way to accurately track "which afflictions are healed, and which body parts are down and ready"

Ceres in a fight: I may as well leave, if I do anything they will just run/lich.

No point killing a licher.

If there are geomancer(s) involved in a combat I'll happily take part.

I don't whine about inquisition anymore, I deal with it by ghosting or shieldwhoring until it goes away, since focus-spirit doesn't cure heretic (which it damn well should, it cures omen) I used to bitch about it, but now i've just learnt to accept it, and ghost after being marked infidel to make you waste your power.

And if someone is cloaked, you DO see them applying I'm pretty sure, I'll have to check over my logs to be sure. You can still check what is healed when the stand after broken leg, and it doesn't have to be reliable, but i still get to see whats healed and notified based on besyt guess, it all adds up. Especially when people miss burstorgans I know halfway through the instakill if they've fixed it, and stun-crucify-whatever else to ensure their death.

On the flip side of that, I think lichdom should give the person who kills them the same XP as vitae. Just watch who kills who from an admin point of view for a week or so, and shubberize people for abusing it amongst friends. That would make the skill remain useful for necromancers (since necromancy blows for just about everything else) and it would also let the people killing liches to feel they've gained something out of it.

..the hell does that mean? Also, if it gets an XP gain, I'll take it for 5p, kthx.

It means that they'll turn Murphy into a shrubbery if he spends a few hours "bashing" Daevos by making Daevos lich over and over for only a 10 power cost while getting heavy experience in exchange.

Why would Daevos do it in the first place? And Murphy only gets XP from a Vitae, as he suggested.