Ceres2005-08-28 16:37:21
One of which does nothing 
Kahazul2005-08-28 17:21:42
How are Mugwumps broken?
Kymir can get me down to red health in two swings from his clubs (two from his flails kills me), and I'm only two or three levels below him. Sure we can hit fast, but we more than pay for it in the health department. Someone with flame or lightning runed weapons would kill us even faster.
Just because powerhouses like Narsrim and Kaervas can survive as a Mugwump doesn't mean a whole lot, as not every one of us has a pile of credits to trans resilience and magic. Not to mention artifacts.
Kymir can get me down to red health in two swings from his clubs (two from his flails kills me), and I'm only two or three levels below him. Sure we can hit fast, but we more than pay for it in the health department. Someone with flame or lightning runed weapons would kill us even faster.
Just because powerhouses like Narsrim and Kaervas can survive as a Mugwump doesn't mean a whole lot, as not every one of us has a pile of credits to trans resilience and magic. Not to mention artifacts.
Kymir2005-08-28 19:37:35
QUOTE(Kahazul @ Aug 28 2005, 05:21 PM)
How are Mugwumps broken?
Kymir can get me down to red health in two swings from his clubs (two from his flails kills me), and I'm only two or three levels below him. Sure we can hit fast, but we more than pay for it in the health department. Someone with flame or lightning runed weapons would kill us even faster.
Kymir can get me down to red health in two swings from his clubs (two from his flails kills me), and I'm only two or three levels below him. Sure we can hit fast, but we more than pay for it in the health department. Someone with flame or lightning runed weapons would kill us even faster.
174606
To be fair, I'm a brood viscanti with 170-ish damage flails. Due to flex, geburah and a lucky fortuna, I had 20 strength at the time, too.
Shiri2005-08-29 01:17:07
Mugwumps are only SLIGHTLY less tanky than Elfen/Merian/Furrikin/Aslaran (probably more tanky than Aslaran in a lot of situations.) Their "untankiness" is vastly exaggerated. Their speed compensates far too much, even more so because shieldwhoring is almost as fast as voiding as a mugwump.
Unknown2005-08-29 01:59:24
Agreed, Shiri. They are only slightly less hardy than average, yet one of the most awesomely powerful races offensively, simply because their speed aligns perfectly with their primary stat.
Even Faelings who have LESS hardiness don't have that same offensive power based on top-level speed reinforcing an extremely high damage stat. (Well, unless someone wants to give them faster eq recovery? No? Nuts.)
Even Faelings who have LESS hardiness don't have that same offensive power based on top-level speed reinforcing an extremely high damage stat. (Well, unless someone wants to give them faster eq recovery? No? Nuts.)
Shiri2005-08-29 03:12:27
Faelings aren't less hardy, there's a reason I didn't include them. Sip bonuses = awesome.
Ashteru2005-08-29 03:16:58
Ever tried bashing as a Mugwump? I can take every little thing on prime, but for example Astral...well, my successive deads speak for that.
Kahazul2005-08-29 03:22:00
Elfen-
DISADVANTAGES:
o None.
Furrikin-
DISADVANTAGES:
o Are more susceptible to fire, level 1.
Faeling-
DISADVANTAGES-
o None.
Merian-
DISADVANTAGES:
o Are susceptible to fire, level 2.
o Are susceptible to electricity, level 2.
Aslaran-
DISADVANTAGES:
o Are susceptible to fire, level 2.
o Heal more slowly from elixirs, level 1.
o Slower herb balance, level 1
Mugwump-
DISADVANTAGES:
o Are susceptible to fire, level 3.
o Are susceptible to electricity, level 3.
As you can see, Elfen, Faelings, and Furrikin come nowhere near Mugwumps in terms of how much damage a heat or electrical attack will do, even if their cons are roughly the same.
Aslaran come close in terms of fire, but they have two more con.
Merian are really the only ones you can compare to a Mugwump, but the fact that their equilibrium is two levels slower is offset because they have 1 level lower weakness in each area AND they have 3 more intelligence (Assuming it's an Imperial Merian, obviously). In fact, I would venture to say that Imperian Merian are superior to Mugwumps all-around.
DISADVANTAGES:
o None.
Furrikin-
DISADVANTAGES:
o Are more susceptible to fire, level 1.
Faeling-
DISADVANTAGES-
o None.
Merian-
DISADVANTAGES:
o Are susceptible to fire, level 2.
o Are susceptible to electricity, level 2.
Aslaran-
DISADVANTAGES:
o Are susceptible to fire, level 2.
o Heal more slowly from elixirs, level 1.
o Slower herb balance, level 1
Mugwump-
DISADVANTAGES:
o Are susceptible to fire, level 3.
o Are susceptible to electricity, level 3.
As you can see, Elfen, Faelings, and Furrikin come nowhere near Mugwumps in terms of how much damage a heat or electrical attack will do, even if their cons are roughly the same.
Aslaran come close in terms of fire, but they have two more con.
Merian are really the only ones you can compare to a Mugwump, but the fact that their equilibrium is two levels slower is offset because they have 1 level lower weakness in each area AND they have 3 more intelligence (Assuming it's an Imperial Merian, obviously). In fact, I would venture to say that Imperian Merian are superior to Mugwumps all-around.
Shiri2005-08-29 03:26:17
QUOTE(Kahazul @ Aug 29 2005, 04:22 AM)
Elfen-
DISADVANTAGES:
 o None.
Furrikin-
DISADVANTAGES:
 o Are more susceptible to fire, level 1.
Faeling-
DISADVANTAGES-
 o None.
Merian-
DISADVANTAGES:
 o Are susceptible to fire, level 2.
 o Are susceptible to electricity, level 2.
Aslaran-
DISADVANTAGES:
 o Are susceptible to fire, level 2.
 o Heal more slowly from elixirs, level 1.
 o Slower herb balance, level 1
Mugwump-
DISADVANTAGES:
 o Are susceptible to fire, level 3.
 o Are susceptible to electricity, level 3.
As you can see, Elfen, Faelings, and Furrikin come nowhere near Mugwumps in terms of how much damage a heat or electrical attack will do, even if their cons are roughly the same.
Aslaran come close in terms of fire, but they have two more con.
Merian are really the only ones you can compare to a Mugwump, but the fact that their equilibrium is two levels slower is offset because they have 1 level lower weakness in each area AND they have 3 more intelligence (Assuming it's an Imperial Merian, obviously). In fact, I would venture to say that Imperian Merian are superior to Mugwumps all-around.
DISADVANTAGES:
 o None.
Furrikin-
DISADVANTAGES:
 o Are more susceptible to fire, level 1.
Faeling-
DISADVANTAGES-
 o None.
Merian-
DISADVANTAGES:
 o Are susceptible to fire, level 2.
 o Are susceptible to electricity, level 2.
Aslaran-
DISADVANTAGES:
 o Are susceptible to fire, level 2.
 o Heal more slowly from elixirs, level 1.
 o Slower herb balance, level 1
Mugwump-
DISADVANTAGES:
 o Are susceptible to fire, level 3.
 o Are susceptible to electricity, level 3.
As you can see, Elfen, Faelings, and Furrikin come nowhere near Mugwumps in terms of how much damage a heat or electrical attack will do, even if their cons are roughly the same.
Aslaran come close in terms of fire, but they have two more con.
Merian are really the only ones you can compare to a Mugwump, but the fact that their equilibrium is two levels slower is offset because they have 1 level lower weakness in each area AND they have 3 more intelligence (Assuming it's an Imperial Merian, obviously). In fact, I would venture to say that Imperian Merian are superior to Mugwumps all-around.
174918
For one thing, lightning is not a major weakness as storm does bugger all. (Lightning runes are hurty, though.)
Fire is only a weakness fighting ONE guild.
And 2 more equilibrium is TONNES better than 3 INT. Much much much much much better. Mugwumps overshadow every one of those races.
I think you're assuming the statistics are equal, -which they aren't.- They're very different.
Ashteru2005-08-29 03:29:35
I had no problems hunting gorgogs as an elf. Or better, not as much. :>
Just as an example. Sometimes it's nicer to hit hard but slower.
Just as an example. Sometimes it's nicer to hit hard but slower.
Kahazul2005-08-29 03:32:27
Cosmicfire is 50% heat.
Blast is 100% heat.
Aquamancer staff is 100% heat.
Gorgogs hit for fire damage.
Rockeaters hit for fire damage.
A couple of other common bashing denizens hit for fire damage.
Lightning runes add 33% lightning to each swing.
Fire runes add 33% fire to each swing.
Storm hits for lightning although, yes, it is weak either way.
I assume being on fire causes fire damage.
You can be sure that sometime in the future quite a lot of fire and maybe electrical attacks will be added.
Just saying that Aquamancers aren't the only beings in the entire game that have an edge against Mugwumps.
Blast is 100% heat.
Aquamancer staff is 100% heat.
Gorgogs hit for fire damage.
Rockeaters hit for fire damage.
A couple of other common bashing denizens hit for fire damage.
Lightning runes add 33% lightning to each swing.
Fire runes add 33% fire to each swing.
Storm hits for lightning although, yes, it is weak either way.
I assume being on fire causes fire damage.
You can be sure that sometime in the future quite a lot of fire and maybe electrical attacks will be added.
Just saying that Aquamancers aren't the only beings in the entire game that have an edge against Mugwumps.
Sylphas2005-08-29 03:33:46
Faeling are actually tankier than elfen or furrikin, even with less con. Regen and sip bonuses are awesome.
Shiri2005-08-29 03:40:07
QUOTE(Kahazul @ Aug 29 2005, 04:32 AM)
Cosmicfire is 50% heat.
Blast is 100% heat.
Aquamancer staff is 100% heat.
Gorgogs hit for fire damage.
Rockeaters hit for fire damage.
A couple of other common bashing denizens hit for fire damage.
Lightning runes add 33% lightning to each swing.
Fire runes add 33% fire to each swing.
Storm hits for lightning although, yes, it is weak either way.
I assume being on fire causes fire damage.
You can be sure that sometime in the future quite a lot of fire and maybe electrical attacks will be added.
Just saying that Aquamancers aren't the only beings in the entire game that have an edge against Mugwumps.
Blast is 100% heat.
Aquamancer staff is 100% heat.
Gorgogs hit for fire damage.
Rockeaters hit for fire damage.
A couple of other common bashing denizens hit for fire damage.
Lightning runes add 33% lightning to each swing.
Fire runes add 33% fire to each swing.
Storm hits for lightning although, yes, it is weak either way.
I assume being on fire causes fire damage.
You can be sure that sometime in the future quite a lot of fire and maybe electrical attacks will be added.
Just saying that Aquamancers aren't the only beings in the entire game that have an edge against Mugwumps.
174926
We're talking about player combat. There's lightning runes, which I did mention, no one I know has fire runes, storm is worthless, ignition is similarly useless, cosmicfire is pretty weak anyway, and blast is similarly weak as even with a weakness the staff usually does more. Mobs don't count. Aquamancers, yes, do count. But even WITH all those, the L3 equilibrium is just too much. Too many important things take equilibrium. Staff, shield, web, aeon, moonburst, lash, amissio...etc.
Kahazul2005-08-29 03:44:12
Not every Mage has mythical Geomancy/Aquamancy, which, I believe, is when one learns staff.
Also, how do denizens not count? If you want to be strong enough to engage in player versus player you're going to have to either bash a lot or quest until your eyes begin to bleed, and if a Gorgog is hitting you for 1000-1700 health per round it's hard to gain experience.
Also, how do denizens not count? If you want to be strong enough to engage in player versus player you're going to have to either bash a lot or quest until your eyes begin to bleed, and if a Gorgog is hitting you for 1000-1700 health per round it's hard to gain experience.
Ashteru2005-08-29 03:45:02
Denizens DO count in a way. Regardless if +3 equi or +10 equi, a level 1 Mugwump will always die easily. You HAVE to take denizens into consideration, otherwise that arguement doesn't have that much weight. And against denizens...well, Mugwumps are simply crap agains them, as far as I can tell.
Krokani, Merian - check.
Everything smaller - check.
Gorgogs, everything astral - All can break shields too fast.
EDIT: Ninja'd by Kahazul
Krokani, Merian - check.
Everything smaller - check.
Gorgogs, everything astral - All can break shields too fast.
EDIT: Ninja'd by Kahazul
Shiri2005-08-29 03:50:05
Kharvik wasn't a mugwump for ages. Now he is. He gets all the advantage in PvP, without any of this bashing difficulty. So it's irrelevant, you can't count it when looking at combat balance.
And the idea is that you count -at least- tritrans when balancing, because if I didn't have half my skills, I'd think my class was underpowered, but I do, so it isn't.
And the idea is that you count -at least- tritrans when balancing, because if I didn't have half my skills, I'd think my class was underpowered, but I do, so it isn't.
Alger2005-08-29 04:31:16
bashing difficutly? I could bash glomdoring and balach swamps as a level 15 novice mugwump aquamancer just because of eq bonus. As Alger in those areas i had to be 50+ to survive.
