Hey, if you're really one of the best, you'll come up with another good killing tactic, I'm sure.

Ummm... there is one already.

So, it's been proposed that it's possible for the attackers to do crucify, then trample, then sacrifice within the one second stun of crucify, offering the target no chances to escape no matter what skills, actions, or abilities they have.

If that's true, then I must reluctantly agree with Amaru -- this is broken and needs fixing. (And there are likely a few other combos that are the same.)

I think that you'd do well to have to work a little harder for your kills. I chose to lose the damage whoring in lieu of more skill. Now when i kill people I feel a lot better about it.

You should try it

Well Murphy, my way of killing is hardly 'easy' or 'dumb'. Guardian is probably the most complex and varied class. And Soll, I'm sure I would think of something else, but I love the one I have. Anyway, people would be just as quick to scream neeeeerf.

or you could agree to a cure for blackout that doesn't suck an assload of mana (or takes a %)

Try focus spirit!

So I will ask you now, since Amaru didn't care to answer. Where's the line? How many powerful and skilled attackers -can- have a way to instakill someone without a chance for him to escape. If three can't, is 5 okay?

So what? You said it's longer than 2 seconds, I said it's 1.0 second.

Achaea still has both vivicripple and enfeeble/absolve... both are unavoidable instakills, since it only takes you to be 1 point of mana below maximum before enfeebling.

Like Reazon said, it's impossible avoiding kills like that in groups, group combat is always imbalanced... and it's apparently fine to cure deafness/bellow, continue to bellow while someone else aeons and moonbursts, 0.1 second between stun, takes 1.5 second to get a command through aeon: unavoidable.

Many more examples that people think are fine untill they're used against them.

Actually, I can get out of bellow-whoring with aeon.



Prolly not before I coulda died to Moonburst, though.

Waning aeon is prolonged if it's repeated, so it's physically impossible to get out, you would only have a chance if the aeon is given by tarot.

Nah. Eventually the time goes so it's:

Unstunned
You move sluggishly into action
Bellow
Unstunned
You do *thing*.

I'd say that mage/druid dreamweavers having a guaranteed blackout if they embed memoryloss is far worse than 2 people having a 25% chance or whatever it is of blacking someone out everytime their pet attacks, but that's just me.

32% chance.

Embedded memoryloss has always been insane, but it's hard to make the admin see that when they just accuse you of faking the logs you post.

I'm not responsible for the game's design, so I'm only answering from what I take it to be based on how everything else works. Every single attack or combo that mortals can do has a chance to be escaped, avoided, or prevented. Not by everyone, not if they're insufficiently prepared or lack skills or simply don't know to do the exact right thing at every moment. Sometimes the chance of escape is very very very small. But there is always one.

Thus, to answer your question, take the greatest number of HP a person can have, divide by the amount of damage the people you have in mind can do, and that's your answer. Because the only entirely unavoidable instakill that fits into the paradigm of how everything else in the game works is lots and lots of damage.

Every other instakill has at least some way for someone to avoid it some of the time. So when one comes out as an exception, it's reasonable to think that it is an exception and needs to be reconsidered.

Are you guys talking about the same blackout as me, or do people really not know the way to cure it at 0 mana/power cost? (Not zero cost, mind you, but no cost in mana or power.)

Everyone knows Allheale cures blackout. The problem they have is that Allheale is also on a 20-second balance recovery. So it is easily likely that a person will be blacked out and have no way of immediately curing it, because he or she is off Allheale balance.

In the other IRE games, a person could have a tree tattoo and recovery (I think that is the name) in survival to push the balance time down to 10 seconds. It was a lot easier in those games to heal blackout and also it was a bit harder for a person to give blackout. I also do not remember any passive means of giving blackout in Achaea or Imperian.

Maybe have some skill in environment or discipline to speed it up to 10 seconds as well? Could be an answer to the passive blackout issue, because Geb's right.. no other game has a class with passive blackout to its disposal, for a good reason most likely.

Or have focus spirit cure it.

Stun and blackout are overdone in Lusternia.

Shieldstun/trueheal/soulless= Overpowered.

When you see three Paladins stacking inqui, will anyone complain? I'm not even sure if it's possible. I've never seen it done.

Daevos, Nok and Alger pulled off a badass move. What can you do? Maybe he could have truehealed. I think that Amaru wasn't expecting it and didn't react fast enough to cure his limbs. That or, they were too fast. I was there. It happened faster than I could blink.

Crucify shouldn't stun. I'm so sick of stun. Gods. Does every 'good' ability have to stun? That's the problem I see with that.

I know that champion artifacts have nothing to do with this thread, but Murphy spoke to me in game about it and I agree that our artifacts, while special (as it's a symbol of your responsiblity) are utterly crap in comparison to the other artifacts. Warriors are already weak vs Guardians. I'm really not sure why this is the case.

Amen on everything Malicia

Stun is indeed overdone.. I point you to the Narsrim/Munsia combo with farheal, bellow and then whatever the hell Narsrim wants to do to the helpless victim.

Edit: doublewhammy sensitivity hexes now, since Nars went hexes (according to my sources)