Whereas toadcurse wastes your power if you hit them above half by accident, and absolve presumably does the same. Hmm.

Are you sure though?
I mean, wrack might not suck power when it fails because target is not bound, but waste it when he is bound but above half mana like other skills.
I don't know, could someone confirm how -exactly- it is?

Nice match, Torak.

Dia tries to kill with damage, and that just isn't enough. Rebounded a lot, from what I can see. Ouch.

And also, isn't it wicked that there's an entire skillset dedicated to avoiding warrior attacks, along with aura and shieldwhoring? Combat. Overpowered!

Nice match Torak Bro!

Anyone can't use it effectively; some builds just do not have the tools to accomplish the deed well. Alger really does not have an active way of causing balance lose without sacrificing his warrior offense, so Alger will find sacrificing someone a good bit harder than say Murphy will.

Nihilists are just built screaming to sacrifice people if they use hangman, contagion, shackles, aeon, and ectoplasm effectively. The nice part about it all is that besides contagion, there is no real power cost until the person actually goes for the crucify to sacrifice process. A smart Nihilist will not start the process unless he or she is sure that the target is suitably messed up balance wise to pull it off. That allows a smart Nihilist to save on his or her power expenditures while in the process of working towards a sacrifice kill.

The sacrifice process for a Nihilist is also one heck of a hindering process. The whole process, when done effectively, can slow down the active offense of the target it is directed towards. Considering the abilities I mentioned above, a person without the native ability to cleanse ectoplasm can easily be placed in a SOL situation. Since ectoplasm costs zero power, the love potion can not be controlled on when or whom it lusts, and cleanse enchantments are required by a non-mage to cure it, a person can over time easily find himself eventually unable to cleanse ectoplasm. Once ectoplasm is stuck on the person, balance stacking abilities and afflictions can cause the balance time of the person rise to a suitable enough level to make him sacrifice fodder. Unless the person is able to continuously push the Nihilist Lich out of the room and then blow the contagion flies away, summoning contagion once can be the only power expended until the Nihilist is pretty certain the person will not escape a sacrifice attempt.

Now, what makes Inquisition so easy to avoid? A few things make it easy really. First, there is nothing the Celestine can really do to set a person up to be ready for the Inquisition process besides actually starting it. It is a simple matter for the target of the attempt at inquisition to just shield, depart, web, etc… at any point in the process before he is actually placed under Inquisition. Each time the Celestine restarts the process, the Celestine is spending power. A person can wait till the Celestine actually has spent up power to brand him an Infidel and then depart, forcing the Celestine to waste power. There is nothing a Celestine can do really, besides using shield stun over and over, to ensure that a person really will stick around for the final act of Inquisition. Heck, most Liches are smart enough to know to get the heck out of dodge before that part happens and some even use ghost as a means of effective escape from it.

you dirty rotten bastard, what about the knights!!

sacrifice is near useless to us, any decent fg\\ight can cure contagion, and apart from that we have no means (except for alucky wind-ecto) to get the off balance. Not only that, but you have to keep the on the cross, shieldstun doesn't keep them from writhing

solution? make the necromancy skillset be able to give aeon

EDIT: Please oh PLEASE give us the ability to give aeon in necromancy, it would mak sacrifice so much better ion the behalf of warriors, serenguard have it and its not overpowered...PLEASE!

Yeh geb, however a good nihilist also knows, that if he gets a soulless tarot rubbed up, its much more efficient ot get them messed up with web, hangedman, crucify and aeon then fling soulless after the crucify, it works so much better

Sacrifice has more style though

one last reply, i can't b naffed to find the edit button

Lets just, instead of refer to bonecrusher, just refer to murphy and/or shiro as we are the only bonecrushers out there who are affected by any change opr tactic to BC

Meh, Murphy. Not all Serenguard have aeon. Not many Serenguard use it either!

Well Murphy, Knights don't NEED these instakills. Guardians do. That's point #1.

Compare Paladins with inquisition to Ur'Guard with sacrifice. Both can be pulled off if, say, you juxtapose crucify/heretic/infidel with impale or pinleg.

The point of all this is to say what Lisaera would tell you in a heartbeat: wrath, absolve and toadcurse are balanced. Sacrifice and inquisition are balanced. Period.

Wrack, absolve and toadcurse are indeed balanced, sacrifice and inquisition however aren't, not in a long run.

First of all, inquisition is somewhat easier to pull off for a celestine, than sacrifice for a nihilist, but much easier for a paladin than for an ur'guard.

Second of all, if you get inquisitioned, you lose vitae, and pray for salvation. If you get sacrificed, you just vitae, and gain suspect together with a chance to run.

We need to stay objective here... you wouldn't even trade inquisition for sacrifice if you'd get 1000 credits for it.

Fine, let me rephrase. Necromancy is balanced with Sacraments. Ur'Guard are balanced with Paladins and Celestines are balanced with Nihilists.

That I can live with.

Good job Torak. Remind me to stay on your good side

I wouldn't necessarily say that, as I have never actually looked into comparing them. However, I've not seen anything to suggest Sacraments and Necromancy aren't balanced against each other (or Celestialism and Nihilism, whatever) as a whole.

As a whole, they're fine.

I miss Torak.

Wow... massive, massive necro...

Me too