But what does having the skill have to do with following the Spirits... You can serve Night and Crow without having the skill of Night and Crow

I dunno, I don't think Nyla could really classify me as his bodyguard.

Edit: And Nyla, it's like the Blacktalon saying "We aren't going to actually devote ourselves to Crow, bonding to Him and learning His lessons. Instead, we're going to learn the art of flower-picking and then say we still follow Crow."

Sounds like Crow to me! He's a tricky one with all kinds of false memories.

But there is a reason they are called the Blacktalon or Shadowdancers, or Hartstone or Moondancers... You are the Ebonguard

I had thoughts of this as well, and I have no problems with having a choice between Hunting or Athletics, or Hunting or Rituals. They are what I see as just skillsets.

As people have repeatedly pointed out, all the guilds on Achaea that share a similar class have exactly identical skills but they have different ideals that define their own RP. A Serpentlord and a Naga have identical skills and use them exactly the same, but the guild they are affiliated with will define their RP and characters. I'm not going to look at Alger (an ur'Guard who has taken up Hunting) and see him being a Serenguard anymore than Diamante being an ur'Guard. Skills may help define who you are, but they are not the sole aspect at developing your RP and character.

An ur'Guard with Hunting will still be dedicated to Magnagora and his guild, same as a Serenguard with Hunting, it doesn't matter that they share the exact same skills, it is how they choose to use to skills and to what ends.

Are people actually saying otherwise?

Didn't Estarra once compared the Seren's guild to Arthur? Merlin is the Druid (Hartstone), Lady of the Lake (Moondancer), and Arthur (Serenguard). I don't really think Arthur actually worshipped or followed those two and reverred them as gods or anything, but he still fought for what they all wanted or believed in.

Yes, people like Singollo and Gwylifar are saying those that took Hunting have turned their backs to the Great Spirits and therefore don't deserve to be treated as equal to those that had.

Maybe Hunting could just be mandatory, and leave the initiations into Totems for the mystical guilds?

That way maybe there wouldn't be the identity crisis.

Fear me! I am Narsrim D'cente, Moondancer Champion... Lady of the Lake? I want a better analogy.

You put too much effort into someone who has left the game and the other who has pissed off the entire guild

Still, if they went all along the way of being a Necromancer defining an Ur'guard, which is completely understandable, it is some kind of a problem now don't you think? Nothing that can't be dealt with, but I believe you agree that if someone shaped the guild that way, and now it is taking a turnover, it can be... 'annoying' for them?

I haven't quite pissed off my entire guild, yet at least. :/

I think he means Singollo, could be wrong, though.

Hey, I'm not saying what some are feeling is wrong. Especially those that have shaped their RP around ur'Guard being Death Knights and such, I can understand it would be 'annoying' for them. Which is incidently reminding of the whole thing with Faelings, but I'm not going there.

Being annoyed is one thing, but going so far as to start separating and defining elites and second-rate members within a guild is just pathetic. One of the reasons why Achaea went to houses because there were so many damn elitism in guilds. I honestly don't see anything good that can come about with having something like this in Lusternia. There is a reason why we get class upon joining the guild, so we don't have to put up with craps like they had in Achaea. If you're going to implement requirements like needing to follow Totems to advance in the guild, you're only alienating Hunters in your guild, not to mention send out a bad message to newbies and novices. DON'T TAKE HUNTING OR YOU'LL NEVER BE AMOUNT TO ANYTHING IN THE GUILD BECAUSE WE HATE HUNTING!

He did, but I'm also one of the people Terenas is talking about, so was responding to Narsrim's post.

Yeah, I noticed the similarity last night when I was far more frustrated than I am now.



Isn't that the point?

To alienate members of your own guild and create the same problems that eventually lead Achaea to completely abandoning the guild system?

Not sure how it creates problems. It's their choice to choose hunting, and they're told what the downside of choosing it is.