I'm going to say again what I seem to end up saying with every class I play: Please nerf some of our skills, so that we can actually get fixed what needs fixing.

Same thing happened with Sentinels: most of the animals weren't really any good, most of our traps didn't see much use, yet since Returning was awesomely good, fixing that would have made us insanely powerful.

With Druids, downgrade/remove Sap, slow down fetishes, and then give us a way or two to kill without needing Sap or a hellishly fast fetish.

These are the things to report to your envoys as we aren't going to read forums to make changes to skills as a rule. Note that since the deadline was extended, envoys have time to incorporate these new skills in their reports.

Geb, while I respect the fact you are a top tier fighter and you do generally test skills before posting. There are a few things to note.

1) Anything can be proven overpowerful in strict testing conditions.
2) Your log shows that you shrugged 50% of the afflictions given, (and if you can argue that under the criteria of a person being a mugwump/having sap/having BerserkFetish, then it is justifiable to argue that the opponent can shrug with Trans resilience), meaning that a Fetish is only useful for 50% of its afflictions.
3) In real combat situations there are a hundred random variables that testing does not take into consideration.

I have already agreed on the speed of a Mugwump using a fetish to be overly fast. However I also know that unless my opponent stands there and lets me do nothing but Berserkfetish them, then there are many other factors to consider that bring down the odds of me actually using my fetish as indicated.

Just to note, I am the only Hartstone member that fits the testing criteria being discussed here. I do not know about Blacktalon, but I suspect they are in the same boat.

*clears his throat*
Berserkerfetish/sap/Mugwump here.
But we are the only two.
And I suck at fighting.

It's nearly as fast for a lightninged furrikin/merian/aslaran, and damned speedy even with just the level one eq.

I'd be wary of submitting a huge proposal like that, actually, since unless it all went in, there's a good chance of either nothing happening, or us just being nerfed to hell, or possibly upgraded to seriously overpowered.

That's probably just me being paranoid. And the fact that I've met very few people who actually agree with me about that, that would get it put into the report anyway.

That's why you make really bold proposal that gets half your guild to hate you entirely! Like with Nihilism Sting.

Tell me to envoy what you think needs to be fixed. I have no qualms about being hated for the sake of balance in the game. Besides everyone will adapt in time and if something really needs to be fixed, well then it is my job to be the guy everyone blames, as I am the Hartstone envoy.

Well the fact is from what I heard over 60% Glomdoring believes its taintedb ut most of you are a bunch of wusses and wont smack some sense into Viravain. Most people that live in glomdoring dont even like the fact that thier Goddess thinks its not tainted.. from what Ive heard theres only one or two people who are insane as Viravain and I mean come on that has to be frustrating to deny taint when all the people who moved there from Magnagora only went there because it was tainted

I know more than two.

I believe what he fears is that a large number of changes will be submitted, half of them nerfing skills, and half of them making skills better, and just the nerfing will go through, or just the making skills better will go through. What he is saying is that both need to go through or none need to go through for balance to be maintained, but in an Envoy report, that just isn't possible to ensure.

I find the administration to be rather fair in its assessment of things. If they aren't willing to upgrade, they typically don't just downgrade and that's it. Envoys should know this.

Here is a better overall test of shrugging and speed for single fetish attacks from a Mugwump. Note this is purely testing speed and shrug and not any other factors.

Stopwatch Statistics
Replication: 40
Mean Time: 1.585 secs
Mean Time (1 dec place): 1.5 secs
Min Time: 1011 secs, Max Time: 2714 secs

Terenas shrugged 16 times.

Terenas is trans resilience, yes?

The person I tested with was not a mugwump, the person was an Aslaran. That beating the herb balance recovery was accomplished with only a level 1 equilibrium recovery. Therefore, you can't continue to state that only mugwumps are a problem.

Also, you have 100% affliction rate, while a person with transcendent resilience has 33% chance to shrug. Therefore, you will have a 67% chance per fetish use to afflict a person with a venom if he has transcendent resilience.

i believe al tests should be done at trans to all the relevant skills

Lalala, and Aquamancers, Geomancers, Nihilists, Ur'Guard and Paladins, Moondancers and Shadowdancers all have instakills.

Druids, however, do not. I would be willing to let my attack speed be nerfed for chasm. However, if you're going to nerf our only serious offense (since our demesnes are a joke, and smudges, while a nice addition to our demesnes, are herb-costly, and rape our ego), I'd like some form of compensation. Our cudgels are rediculously useless against players, and our charms, last checked, didn't do squat.

So, please. Nerf us if you will - but I want it to be balanced out elsewhere.

Agreed. Else omnitrans fighters would just be overpowered.

I agree, I also believe that testing in a vacuum is not an imperical test of anything but what you are looking for exactly. Any test for a lone factor can be turned to fully support your case. I can test in a vacuum my vining speed and show that I can whore it against Murphy faster than he can writhe. This does not make Vine overpowered.

Combat has nuances and random variables that make all supporting arguments fluctuate. In the right circumstances anything that can be used to afflict/hinder/damage faster than a person can cure can be classed as overpowered.

For example my being able to attack someone from 10 rooms away with my fetish, cancels out the fetish and sap argument. Fighting someone with ents that hinder, cause me to lose balance, slow me down, cancels out the I can use my fetish every second to hurt someone. There are alot of factors just plain being ignored here.

Wrong, why the hell do you Hartstone keep saying that when Stag Gore instant kills at 1/4 health? Not to mention if you do more than enough damage initially with gore, you can instantly kill them through vitae as well. Blacktalon as far as I know doesn't have an instantkill, but Hartstone druids do, learn all that your skills can do.

Edit- 1/4 health, not 1/3. I don't have Stag, so