It's not relative, nor a matter of opinion, without the bug Celest would have gained 45K supplicants, Magnagora had 9K, Magnagora has far more active citizens than Celest, who are at least just as dedicated...

It's been proven that the quest is far easier, faster, and somehow supplicants don't decay, or only at a very, very slow rate. I.e. there is a huge imbalance present.. the imbalance is in your favour, so of course you think it's fine.

ok last post on this topic, I'm tired of it.

1) sands and spectres should reset at the same time. You can at max gain 10 sands and 10 supplicants a round, and 16 spikes. Since they take the same time to reset no quest is actually faster than the other, aside from the fact that one quest takes longer to pull through but gives more experience as well. (Maybe Karma and gold too). Leaves us at the same fact: a round is about half an hour and you can get up to 10 sands and 16 spikes, so in overall the gain should for both even out, provided there are enough active citizens to do the quests non stop.

2)If supplicants decay slower or not.. no clue. I have to admit I never stood there and timed it, you know? But since it was apparently bugged until recently, it might just have been that.

.. And I'm done, this argument made me go all

Supplicants and spikes decay at exactly the same rate, I have explained what the bug was and fixed it.

Could the spire get now fixed as well please? *hopes* I'll offer to you too if you can do that!

You can't gain 16 spikes in half an hour.

One person can get the 10 sand thingies in 2 minutes (well, just going by what I see here, I haven't done that quest myself), and then spend time hunting for the kinfolk.

-OR-

One person can spend about 30-45 minutes hunting the spectres, then the same time hunting down beggars as it takes for kinfolk, (perhaps another 10-20 minutes?)... if they don't split the spectres they get 11 spikes, if they do they may get 16. You then have to rest to get endurance / willpower back if you use those in great quantities while fighting (in my case, another half-hour or so).

So, that's 22 minutes for a round of 10 sands by one person at maximum, or 95 minutes for a round of 16 spikes by one person.

Even if my estimates on time are a little off, that's still a great time disparity... especially as the things reset every hour, when the sands reset you're ready to go again, when the spectres reset you need to rest or you can't kill 'em.

I thought that's how Magnagora liked it though. If it doesn't envolve killing something it's boring.

And? The timing is still an issue either way. Add a requirement that you have to dig an extra five for each sand and you've got it closer to equal (though it still takes less skill to dig than to hunt, and a novice can still do it).

That's now 50 minutes to get all the sands, which is now about the time it takes to kill the spectres and regenerate willpower/endurance. There, balanced.

Why does everything have to be perfectly balanced? Magnagora Pwns Celest at everything. Celest is handed a bone. People whine.

I demand Magnagora gives us.. hrm.. how about Daevos. That might make it a little more balanced for Celest.

Bah. You're not taking Daevos outta Magnagora.

Because 80,000 supplicants to 9,000 spikes isn't quite balanced, there's a chance to take out 9,000 (as you guys have been working on), but there's no way to take out 80,000. Even if you lost all your supernals and didn't restore them for a week, you'd still not be in any danger of losing your shield. You lose... 100 each attack or so? 100 an hour, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 16,800 supplicants lost. Oh no! That's a full WEEK of not restoring ANY, which isn't going to happen.

I think people need to consider the past before ranting. I destroyed the Necromentate -twice-. That means it had to be resurrected from 0 spikes back up. To my knowledge, no one has ever taken down the Star of Celest.

"I destroyed the Necromentate twice" I think you need to control your ego a bit, especially since the Necromentate was only taken down once, and not by you alone. Also remember the Star going down once when we killed four of the Supernals in the early months.

Hmm, I thought it was slain twice... and the first time was due to my first solo kill of Gorgulu so nyah. As for the Star going down, I dunno. I asked and people said it never fell.

Oh god here we go again..

I really hope you're just lying to amuse yourself, because if you really believe what you're saying, you've got issues.

Magnagora is better than Celest because its players are better.

Celest has more supplicants due to coded differences.

The star was taken down once, but it was a very very long time ago.

Um, I'm not entirely convinced that is true.

If Celest players were less dedicated/skilled/whatever than Magnagoran players but had easier mechanics to work with, wouldn't we expect the number of spikes and supplicants to be near to equal? The deficiencies of Celest players would be balanced by the easier quest.

Even accounting for a permanent supplicant doubling bug, which is apparently all there was, the numbers are still significantly different. 6k vs 40k.

Oh so they did cut the supplicants in half?

Only if it were actually balanced. If one group is more dedicated than the other, but has to kill five Supernals to do something... and the other group is less dedicated, but just has to scoop a little water from the Pool to get the same result... the one scooping water would definitely have more

The number of supplicants is considerably more than double the number of spikes.

Admittedly, this is probably because the supplicant quest is more newbie-friendly.