I don't know how it is in Imperian. However in Achaea with its 100% affliction rate, there is no deliviering of poisons, with the exception of a darts trap, at 1 or even 2 per second. Even a Rajamalan Sentinel throwing an axe, which is usually the most complained about tactic I have seen, cannot afflict that fast, although the stun time makes up for that as they can nearly perma stun if they know what they are doing.

In Aetolia, Raja Knights or Raja Snakes can afflict faster than herb balance. Plus, Snakes have illusions going for them.

Mugwump speed is really to fast and I hate saying it, but needs to be lowered and our stats maybe increased.

To be fair, I'm not saying the speed couldn't use a small downgrade. However, something as drastic as moving from level 3 to level 2 would make Mugwumps slower than before.

Perhaps the amount of gain from level 2 to 3 could be toned down... so mugwumps could still have level 3, be fast, but slightly slower for say +1 int/con

You are leaving out a valid point though. In Achaea at the very least, speed knights had rebounding and parry to deal with, Snakes had Sileris, plus nearly all of them illusioned really stupid things which after one fight you knew what to look for I.E Cain and his druid bees. In Lusternia the only thing Mugwump Hexers/Fetish users have to worry about is the person being in the room with them, inthe case of Fetish users in the line of sight. Overall it doesn't matter if a person shrugs a venom I use on them, I can do it again in 1 second if I am lag free.

actually for a speed warrior to hit high speeds they have to sacrifice both damage and wounds. Look at Terenas he has crap for wounds and damage. I have higher wounds but I'm a whole 90+ points down on his speed and we have similar damage. This compared to a mugwump who doesnt really sacrifice the damage of their attacks for its speed.

For tanking... well like you saying that there are tons of things you can do to buff up your mana in some previous thread, there's also a lot that you can do to buff up your hp; we can get tosha blessings, life blessings, Astrology buffs, fetes, even tfs give +2con and a 15% damage shield. There are more tankings buffs out there than there are offensive buffs, a ton more.

Those deffed mugwump stats is that with Astrology and knowledge blessing?

With all the buffs you can get in this realm, the negatives on the Mugwump are meaningless. I don't even have the TF or Tosha Blessing like Narsrim and I'm damn tanky also. The only time Knights have taken me down (*cough* Terenas) is with Behead.

But those are available to everyone. Yes, Mugwumps can get tankier so can everyone else. It doesn't equalize the equation at all.

Overall non specialised races should not trump specialised races. Especially in an area that the specialised race is supposed to be good at.

i.e A Mugwump Druid should not trump a High Elfen Druid.
A Mugwump Wiccan should not trump a High Elfen Wiccan.
A Mugwump Aquamancer should not trump an Imperial Merian Aquamancer
A Mugwump Geomancer should not trump a Brood Viscanti Geomancer.
A Mugwump Nihilist should not trump a Master Viscanti Geomancer....


Edited for consistency

On a neat note in a recent FFA: One aquamancer staff cast does 40-50% of my max health. The speed does come at a cost.

I agree, but saying our negatives, which are our supposed weakness, is not really valid also considering with the right buffs and level a Mugwump can handle heavy damage. So our weakness, is not really that great a threat.

It seems absurd to me to say that Mugwumps can do this or that with X-person at Y-time that may cost Z-power and requires A-quest and B-food item, etc... when knights have this option 24/7 and can still be fast.

No one is going to consider High Elfen until it is up to par with Elfen Lord - end of story.

If high elfen was 19 int, 16 dex, 16 con... people would say screw Mugwumps, I can be tanky and deal damage! However, decreasing Mugwump speed to make an absolutely terrible race seem more appealing is wrong and misleading. Furthermore, it is a knee jerk that doesn't even remotely address the problem.

Champion - Kaervas d'Murani, the Ascendant Fury (Male Mugwump).
Champion - Heir of Ellindel, Narsrim Moonlit Avenger (Male Mugwump).
Champion - Geb (Male Mugwump).
Champion - The Heir of Glinshari, Gregori (Male Mugwump).
Champion - Prince of Darkness, Ethelon Treeripper (Male Mugwump).
Nihilist - Yrael (Male Mugwump).
Druid - Druidic Wanderer Ashteru Sayelle (Male Mugwump).
Moondancer - Dumihru (Female Mugwump).
Druid - Vagrant Kiarian, Fierce Crow (Female Mugwump).
Shadowdancer (former Druid Champion) - Dark Seneschal Marsu Aurendil (Male Mugwump Changeling).

You can bet all of these people are this for one reason. Level 3 EQ, and because it trumps all the races that are specialised for their respective guilds.

Elfen are already more intelligent and tanky than Mugwumps, and have none of the weaknesses. The only reason to pick Mugwump is because it is faster than anything else there is, and speed trumps 300 extra mana.

I don't think you grasp the fact that people don't select their specialized races because they SUCK. If they were /better/ people might say, "Hmm, it is a tough decision between speed and raw damage/tankage..." but in reality, that isn't the case.

As I said,

High Elfen (deffed): 19 int, 16 dex, 16 con

Imperian Merian (deffed): 20 int, 14 dex, 14 con

===================================

This may sound like a big jump for them but it is almost exactly up to par with their warrior equivalents. If this was an option, people would consider it... however, you cannot say that Mugwumps are too powerful because High Elfens/Imperial Merians are terrible. Mugwumps are good... they are bad. For that reason, people select Mugwump.

If they were decent, you might have a valid argument, but it is skewed to compared decent to crap and argue that decent is overpowerd because crap stinks so bad.

They are not tanky enough though... +1 con != that much tankier

+4-6 con on the other hand would have HUGE impact

I am not saying mugwumps are to powerful because Elfen suck. I am saying Mugwumps are to fast AND specialised races suck.

And thus they are two different issues entirely. Mugwumps could be toned down slightly. High Elfen need a massive upgrade.

My biggest concern is what we mean when we "tone down." As I said, if they were set to level 2 equilibrium, they would be slower than before. Why should they be slower then everything else got faster/better? I would suggest a decrease in the gain from level 2-3 for balance/equillibrium (so they are somewhat slower but not as much as a full level reduction) with +1 con/int

firstly if you're going to try to get surge nerfed, don't even go there. I don't use surge as i'm as tanky as any other knight out there, with my 4.4k hp