I like this idea much much better.

Influencing skillrank already affects the damage of your attacks. Additionally, it determines the effectiveness of your attacks through the multiple abilities you have access to, as well as providing effectively 'extra' ego since it has SuperEgo.

It's never been slighted in the equation for influence success.

The only place Influence skill needs to play more of a role is in village influencing.

No. City/Commune rank needs to play a role in village influencing and hence it does

I’ve just conducted a test to determine what percentage change in ego damage a one-unit change in charisma will cause when debating someone with Pettifoggery against his Analytical mindset. To insure no lingering effects were in place when I conducted the second debate attempt at the one point higher charisma, I waited until the, “After a long pause in you and your interlocutor's dialectic, you lose interest
in the debate and let your mind drift to other things”, message was received.

At 11 charisma, the debate ego damage I gave Luxis was 757. At 12 charisma, the damage increased to 769. A one-point increase in charisma caused a +1.6% increase in ego damage. I do not know if this is true across the board, but for this particular attack the ego damage difference between the lowest base charisma (Brood Viscanti at 9) and the highest base charisma (High Elfen and Faeling at 16) is about 11.2%.

That test does not take into account the speed variance - did you time both eq recoveries?

Yes it does not. We know what the speed variance is already from previous tests posted on this very thread. Since that was the case, I only conducted a test on the damage variance in a one-point charisma change for that one particular attack, against that one particular mindset.

Though I don't doubt your testing, I would suggest testing it with more charisma range, if Charisma's effects on influence is anything like Strength or Intelligence then it would most likely be scaled. Therefore you can't simply use the difference of one Charisma to determine the possible effects of very high Charisma versus very low Charisma.

In response to Daevos, I really like that idea about rankings making a difference in speed. I'd also like to see races with low Charisma to start, like Brood Viscanti, to retain their original debating speed and only those with higher than that would get slightly faster, assuming this isn't already how it works since I have not tested the speed.

As soon as I find a test subject, I will retry the test as a Mugwump with 11 charisma and an Imperial Merian with a 16 charisma (via the use of Netzach).

Per gebs request, edited out irrelavent stuffs

6340h, 1295m, 3380e, 10p exkdb-

Geb unscrupulously quibbles about the smallest points in his argument, bringing
up esoteric minutiae to support his radical theories. The logic of this
argument is sound and you find yourself conceding to all the points raised.
6340h, 1321m, 2568e, 10p exkdb-

Geb tells you, "Tell me the damage please."
6340h, 1319m, 2635e, 10p exkdb-

You say, "3380-2568."
6340h, 1296m, 2635e, 10p exkdb-

After a long pause in you and your interlocutor's dialectic, you lose interest
in the debate and let your mind drift to other things.
6340h, 1319m, 2769e, 10p exkdb-


Shadows grow longer in anticipation for the return of their dark mistress as
Father Sun's chase brings him closer to the world's edge.
6340h, 1343m, 2836e, 10p exkdb-




Total Guildmembers: 3
6340h, 1299m, 2970e, 10p exkdb-

6340h, 1299m, 2970e, 10p exkdb-

You have recovered equilibrium.
6340h, 1343m, 3037e, 10p exkdb-

6340h, 1318m, 3037e, 10p exkdb-

Geb's body and features begin to melt like wax, then solidifies into a faeling.
6340h, 1293m, 3037e, 10p exkdb-

Geb takes a drink from a glowing emerald vial.
6340h, 1318m, 3104e, 10p exkdb-

Ah, the soothing bromides help strengthen your ego.
6340h, 1296m, 3380e, 10p exkdb-

6340h, 1343m, 3380e, 10p exkdb-

Geb says to you, "Ok, ready?"
6340h, 1296m, 3380e, 10p exkdb-

You nod your head emphatically.
6340h, 1343m, 3380e, 10p exkdb-

Geb unscrupulously quibbles about the smallest points in his argument, bringing
up esoteric minutiae to support his radical theories. The logic of this
argument is sound and you find yourself conceding to all the points raised.
6340h, 1318m, 2571e, 10p exkdb-

You say, "3380-2571."
6340h, 1343m, 2638e, 10p exkdb-

Geb says, "Hold up, that makes no sense."
6340h, 1343m, 2772e, 10p exkdb-

Fear the Faeling charisma.

This test was conducted under the same conditions as the first one. This time around, the first debate was conducted while I was a mugwump with a 12 charisma. The second test was conducted as a faeling with a 17 charisma. As you can see, I actually gave him 3 points less ego damage as a faeling than I did as a mugwump. The only answer I can have for that is it must be a bug.

Think you should test actual influencing instead of worrying about debate. Since if all conditions apply, wouldn't debate ego damage be based on the max ego of the target.

Is debate damage somewhat random?

It is not random based on the damage tests I’ve run before the recent changes.



I used the same person with the same max ego for both debates, so the max remained constant for both the 12 & 17 charisma debate attempts. Also, wasn't it you that had the concern in game that the change would make it harder on you when debating, because of the speed penalty tacked on to your already lower debate damage? Last, how would you test the damage differential on normal influencing to any accurate degree? It would require knowing exactly how much ego damage you are doing to a mob. Even a significant change may not be noticeable if the mob being influenced is still defeated in the same number of influence attacks. That is why I used debating, because I was under the impression that the damage done was also based on a person’s charisma.

*Had to clean it up to make it a bit more clear.

Choose one decently leveled denizen, influence it til you win with a low charisma race, and time it. Then do the same to the same denizen later, with high charisma.

Debate though has never been my main concern, when it comes to this recent change. But I believe that charisma offers too much of a bonus in that area as well as in actual influencing. Also since debate damage is based on game theory, the endurance boost that charisma gave was enough.

I like this change to debating/influencing.
Charisma never was need to have stat. If you had fast enought race then you ware able to influence realy good *point at Kaervas as Mugwump*.
I know that this may be disadvatage to Viscantis but merians with 10 const wasn't good for fighting. Now they could be good at influencing.
Now you have Charisma in mind when creating your character.

Why best fighter have to be best influencer too?
Influencing is something unique in Lusternia. And i like new change.

We already know that recovery speed is increased with positive changes in charisma. That aspect of it does not need to be tested. Unfortunately, your suggestion solves nothing when it comes to determining an accurate amount on the damage change caused by unit changes in the Charisma statistic. To estimate the effect that changes in charisma have on ego damage will require actual numbers (at least the ego of the particular denizen being tested on).

On your second point, we can't be sure if Charisma offers any benefit damage wise for debating. The two previous tests gave results that were inconclusive.

*Changed to place the correct stat.

My test suggestion would show the overall advantage in offense of having more charisma in the only area that matters to the balance of the game. I do not see the point of insolating only the damage aspect. Especially since you were already told by Hajamin that charisma did boost ego damage output.

How does debating *not* affect the balance of the game? Okay, so it is not as direct as village influencing - but it plays a serious part in that, as well.

Yes, we know it does boost ego damage output on influencing. Your suggestion will not show by how much. Let me give you an example.

Say the denizen has a 4000 ego. The ego damage attack at 12 charisma is 1000. Now it will take me 4 of those attacks to defeat the denizen. Now let's say that a 17 charisma gives an ego damage of 1200. It will still take that person 4 attacks to defeat the denizen (3 attacks only generating 3600 damage). Yes, the person will kill the denizen faster, because that person will have the speed bonus (which has already been determined, so we know how much faster time-wise it would be under that circumstance). What we would not see is how much better damage wise the ego attack of the 17 charisma person is over the 12 charisma person, because both took 4 ego attacks to defeat the same denizen.

An example in the other direction can be shown too. We simply need actual numbers to know how significant the change in ego damage is. Doing tests using denizens and making a determination based on the results will not give us an accurate measure of the damage changed caused by unit changes in the charisma statistic. You have to have actual numbers to work with, or you will be making assumptions based off of skewed information. Right now, what you are asking is guesstimation, and that is not what is needed. I guess the best thing to do is to just ask the Admin to possibly supply the information to us, and also ask if debating is suppose to be included in the damage formulas for unit changes in the charisma stat.