Once again, there are way more varibles than that. What skills does this Faeling have, if mage of druid, what demesne, can the faeling hinder, is he sipping + sparkle+ shielding ect ect. There is plenty of possiblities . Your arguments foundation is flawed.
Daevos2005-09-19 22:22:33
I could survive as a normal Faeling as well, especially against long swords. Just need some skill in Resilience and Combat, and I would barely get hit at all truthfully. Kind of pointless to continue with you as well though. Since you seem to lack a understanding of combat where there are many ways to die, kill, heal, and disable. Stats are a slight help, but never the deciding factor alone in combat.
Unknown2005-09-19 22:26:31
QUOTE(Cult Member @ Sep 20 2005, 12:06 AM)
It has to do with the fact that he's upset that his tanky city has a disadvantage against charisma.
189064
You're saying that like Magnagora (Viscanti) had a natural advantage in combat, which is not the case.
QUOTE(Cult Member @ Sep 20 2005, 12:06 AM)
It doesn't matter if its not only theirs, really, it doesn't negate the fact that they have it.
189064
It does matter because only Viscanti have so low charisma.
QUOTE(Cult Member @ Sep 20 2005, 12:06 AM)
Check the combat forum, all the fighters recommended races other than merian for a Celestine, because their con gets them decimated in combat.
189064
It's a good choice for mages though.
QUOTE(Cult Member @ Sep 20 2005, 12:06 AM)
My point is, the difference between 17 and 20 charisma speedwise is hardly noticable, therefore, Viscanti can be nearly as fast as anyone else when it comes to influencing
189064
QUOTE(Narsrim @ Sep 20 2005, 12:09 AM)
Nihilist Viscanti potential charisma: 18 (19 with a good fortuna, 20 with a truefavour). This still leaves out Astrology so in theory, a Viscanti could get the max influencing speed.
189067
Having to spend karma on blessing, while others don't have to.
You can get life blessing instead, get Tosha, eat con food.
That makes your con decent while you still have very high int. So you get both, high damage and good amount of health, while said Viscanti needs to waste karma on beauty just to get rid of a handicap?
And, what the hell, you can carry around a throne with you?
Unknown2005-09-19 22:29:33
What part of the no defences, just hacking away don't you understand?
"There are other factors!"
Well, golly, whodda thunk it. There are other factors in influencing too. Laetitia, healing scrolls, crusade (which allows your tankiness to be an advantage), buffs, divert, and other skillsets.
Obviously it isn't as complex as combat, but that doesn't change the fact that Con is quite important in a fight.
And don't talk about essons in Resilience and Combat - those are two additional skillsets. You said statistics, not skillsets. Constitution, by itself, as a statistic, is debilitating if you don't have enough of it.
Narsrim2005-09-19 22:34:13
QUOTE(Kashim @ Sep 19 2005, 06:26 PM)
Having to spend karma on blessing, while others don't have to.
You can get life blessing instead, get Tosha, eat con food.
189084
Who are you? I have to get a Tosha blessing, a truefavour, constitution food, and a life blessing to fight high damage warriors. Get with reality.
Daevos2005-09-19 22:35:30
I said that combat was more complex than influencing, and your attempt to create a simple situation to argue my point is completely and irrevocably flawed. Also it seems that your support of the current charisma effect on influencing amounts only to striping away all factors but the ones that may prove your point.
Unknown2005-09-19 22:36:30
Not to mention, in NORMAL village influencing a fighter can stop an influencer, while an influencer CANNOT stop a fighter.
"Oh, look, that influencer stepped out of sanctuary!" :maul: "Oh, look, that fighter stepped out of sanctuary!" :scramble:
When influencers can use their charisma to stop you from killing them, Daevos, I might see your point, however, as it stands, they can't.
Daevos2005-09-19 22:37:19
Peaced villages, and sanctuary negate the risk of physical harm. And only influencing wins the day, nothing else.
Narsrim2005-09-19 22:37:48
QUOTE(Daevos @ Sep 19 2005, 06:37 PM)
Peaced villages, and sanctuary negate the risk of physical harm. And only influencing wins the day, nothing else.
189095
How often does that happen?
Unknown2005-09-19 22:40:47
Peaced Villages are Delport and Estelbar... yeah.. huge margain there.
And you have Crusade. If you raise Crusade first they cannot raise Sanctuary. Hell, Crusade even gives you double the benefit from influencing, and guess what, fighters can utilize Crusade where Influencers really can't.
Faeling Influence walks in, raises Crusade starts to influence. Brood Viscanti warrior walks in, lunges the poor guy into oblivion.
Brood viscanti warrior walks in, raises Crusade, starts to influence. Faeling influencer walks in, diverts, gets lunged into oblivion.
Torak2005-09-19 22:44:18
So Faeling diverts, moves sanctuaries..its not a hard concept. You are making a whole list of improbable situations.
Unknown2005-09-19 22:47:14
Ok.. so.. Faeling diverts.. moves and sanctuaries.. warrior goes back to influencing.. what did that accomplish again? Besides wasting the faeling 1 power?
And it isn't imporbable to think that in a village, as someone is influencing, someone else is going to walk in... in fact.. I'll bet you its more likely some one will than someone won't.
Xenthos2005-09-19 22:47:49
ANNOUNCE NEWS #406 Date: 9/19/2005 at 22:42 From: Lisaera, the Ethereal Maiden To : Everyone Subj: Envoy Changes
Some more envoy changes for you to devour, these ones focusing on our newest skills!
Ecology:
- Transmigration will now only occur if you are on the same plane as your deepbonded animal. - There is a new skill called conceal, check it out. - Animal familiars that are listening now use the right messages.
Tracking:
- Extra functionality added to retriever, I expect you'll like it! - New skill called deliver, have a look.
General Bonded Animals:
- Most bond abilities now require and use equilibrium, as well as having a few other checks. - Unite now has a power cost. - It should be pretty much impossible to SEEK into places an animal shouldn't be now. - Listening animals can no longer tell who an invisible Divine is by voice. Naughty naughty!
Penned by my hand on the 8th of Tzarin, in the year 127 CE.
Torak2005-09-19 22:48:05
So the faeling can't get help to kill the influencer? Come on..use some common sense here.
Unknown2005-09-19 22:53:19
Torak.. you just changed it from a one on one situation to a two on one.
Why can't the viscanti get help to beat the influencer then? We are talking one on one, the Warrior does not have that big of a disadvantage in village influencing. If you add in more people, then, just like the faeling can call a fighter, the fighter can call an influencer... so.. again, it balances out.
Unknown2005-09-19 22:54:09
QUOTE(Xenthos @ Sep 19 2005, 05:47 PM)
ANNOUNCE NEWS #406 Date: 9/19/2005 at 22:42 From: Lisaera, the Ethereal Maiden To : Everyone Subj: Envoy Changes
Some more envoy changes for you to devour, these ones focusing on our newest skills!
Ecology:
- Transmigration will now only occur if you are on the same plane as your deepbonded animal. - There is a new skill called conceal, check it out. - Animal familiars that are listening now use the right messages.
Tracking:
- Extra functionality added to retriever, I expect you'll like it! - New skill called deliver, have a look.
General Bonded Animals:
- Most bond abilities now require and use equilibrium, as well as having a few other checks. - Unite now has a power cost. - It should be pretty much impossible to SEEK into places an animal shouldn't be now. - Listening animals can no longer tell who an invisible Divine is by voice. Naughty naughty!
Penned by my hand on the 8th of Tzarin, in the year 127 CE.
189103
This pisses me off. Gregori suggested quite a few things for Ecology, and they threw it ALL out, except for the penalties.
And conceal's broken.
Unknown2005-09-19 22:57:07
The addition to Retriever is sort of useless, but the new Deliver skill is actually something I hoped for.
What I really wanted to see was PRINTS work like Wolf totem's scent. I just think its silly that a Tracker is actually worse at detecting people in the area than a totem-user I mean, you may bond with a wolf, but i've GOT a wolf :pout:
Athana2005-09-19 22:57:52
QUOTE(Cult Member @ Sep 19 2005, 02:53 PM)
Torak.. you just changed it from a one on one situation to a two on one.
189106
That's because the situation you described during a village revolt is not at all practical.
Torak2005-09-19 23:01:42
He doesn't get it Athana, don't bother. Apparently his opinion is right regardless of how flawed it is.
Daevos2005-09-19 23:01:45
QUOTE(Cult Member @ Sep 19 2005, 05:53 PM)
Torak.. you just changed it from a one on one situation to a two on one.
Why can't the viscanti get help to beat the influencer then? We are talking one on one, the Warrior does not have that big of a disadvantage in village influencing. If you add in more people, then, just like the faeling can call a fighter, the fighter can call an influencer... so.. again, it balances out.
189106
A viscanti can not recieve aid in influencing a denizen simply because there is no significant way of increasing someone else's offensive power in influencing or directly aiding to shorten the battle significantly. The only aid that can be given is defensive, and the same can not be said of combat. Village influencing is also effected in large part by city rank, so are you saying that prominent viscanti lords and ladies should require the assistance of a non viscanti influencer just to have a chance?
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I mean, you may bond with a wolf, but i've GOT a wolf :pout: