Unknown2005-09-20 01:09:48
QUOTE(Phred @ Sep 19 2005, 08:08 PM)
No, I was reacting to the fact that from Estarra's last post she made a statement about a "balance issue", so I assume they're not going to reverse this change. I presented an alternative in case they felt like compromising based on feedback.
189273
The "balance issue" was in reference to the offensive capabilities of the bonded animal, not Transmigration itself. No nerfing my skill. Just change it back.
Bastion2005-09-20 01:23:40
Wow, I'm kind of sad myself. As I play my druid, I'm just a casual basher, and I'm more into developing a scholarly druid, so, I'd take this time to thank you all for putting in libraries, it gives me more to do. However, libraries don't get me the levels that I need to meet certain requirements, so I casually bash. Trans'ing ecology was great for me because I could just have my pet sitting safe, and if an accident did happen to occur and I died, my furry friend would take the hit and I'd be ok, ready to gain my measly experience again. Now, even though I'm too small to have enemies, I'm afraid that if I take my pet somewhere, some random guy is going to come along and whack him, just for fun, and I'm going to die.
Furthermore, were Bastion the type of guy to get into political intrigue and spying and all that, which he isn't, but for arguements sake we'll say he is, I fail to see how these familiars are of any use at all in that regard. Listening is a nifty ability, just like.... having a custom pet that emote stuff when you say phrases to it. It's a pointless thing, but it makes you say
"Wow, that's neat, I am entertained for this brief moment in time. But it doesn't benefit me in any way."
Deepbond or not, our familiars are weak and everyone IC AND OOC knows that they can hear conversations. So if a fox all of a sudden is walking through Magnagora and stops in a conference room full of people, it's sort of obvious what's going on. I realize that conceal has just been placed in, but really, if it only conceals the entering and exiting of the familiar, there's really no advantage, either. I for one, look at my location about every minute, it's a nervous habit I've developed from other games, always expecting someone sneaking in and killing me. I'd imagine that other people have a similiar habit. So, if conceal does not actually conceal the familiar, someone WILL look, see it, and instantly kill it, costing me around 1/3 of my health if I'm not deepbonded, and the power that goes along with the animal.
So really, the point is, that with this skill change, familiars as a whole have become utterly pointless, even from the simple aspect of just dragging it around as a show piece. If someone were to attack you, they could kill your pet first, cutting your health down somewhat dramatically, and then finish you off. I don't feel they can be called spying tools, at least not effective ones, and now I can't even be assured they'll be my savior and not the cause of my untimely demise. I've seen what Gregori wrote, and I'll agree that we can't expect you to read into them, although asking for a nerf without compensation does seem like a silly idea, but to me this just makes them entirely pointless.
The rest of the skillset seems great, even if I never use it. I'm rather saddened that you've received the reaction that you have when you apparently thought you were giving us what we wanted, but hope you can understand that we feel that these familiars were integrated into our skillset, and because they were put in, we assumed they would have a good use for us, and with transmitigation working across planes, they did, even for the casual fighter or basher, but now, they seem like they're just taking up slots in my skillset, and draining my power to drag around a fox who is only able to kill one person - me.
Thank you for your efforts and your time.
Furthermore, were Bastion the type of guy to get into political intrigue and spying and all that, which he isn't, but for arguements sake we'll say he is, I fail to see how these familiars are of any use at all in that regard. Listening is a nifty ability, just like.... having a custom pet that emote stuff when you say phrases to it. It's a pointless thing, but it makes you say
"Wow, that's neat, I am entertained for this brief moment in time. But it doesn't benefit me in any way."
Deepbond or not, our familiars are weak and everyone IC AND OOC knows that they can hear conversations. So if a fox all of a sudden is walking through Magnagora and stops in a conference room full of people, it's sort of obvious what's going on. I realize that conceal has just been placed in, but really, if it only conceals the entering and exiting of the familiar, there's really no advantage, either. I for one, look at my location about every minute, it's a nervous habit I've developed from other games, always expecting someone sneaking in and killing me. I'd imagine that other people have a similiar habit. So, if conceal does not actually conceal the familiar, someone WILL look, see it, and instantly kill it, costing me around 1/3 of my health if I'm not deepbonded, and the power that goes along with the animal.
So really, the point is, that with this skill change, familiars as a whole have become utterly pointless, even from the simple aspect of just dragging it around as a show piece. If someone were to attack you, they could kill your pet first, cutting your health down somewhat dramatically, and then finish you off. I don't feel they can be called spying tools, at least not effective ones, and now I can't even be assured they'll be my savior and not the cause of my untimely demise. I've seen what Gregori wrote, and I'll agree that we can't expect you to read into them, although asking for a nerf without compensation does seem like a silly idea, but to me this just makes them entirely pointless.
The rest of the skillset seems great, even if I never use it. I'm rather saddened that you've received the reaction that you have when you apparently thought you were giving us what we wanted, but hope you can understand that we feel that these familiars were integrated into our skillset, and because they were put in, we assumed they would have a good use for us, and with transmitigation working across planes, they did, even for the casual fighter or basher, but now, they seem like they're just taking up slots in my skillset, and draining my power to drag around a fox who is only able to kill one person - me.
Thank you for your efforts and your time.
Goyel2005-09-20 01:40:09
I skipped a lot of posts.... But from viewing the envoy report, it sounds like you guys are just bitching cause you can't have falcons...
THIS IS NOT ACHAEA.
THIS IS NOT ACHAEA.
Gregori2005-09-20 01:42:52
QUOTE(Goyel @ Sep 19 2005, 07:40 PM)
I skipped a lot of posts.... But from viewing the envoy report, it sounds like you guys are just bitching cause you can't have falcons...
THIS IS NOT ACHAEA.
THIS IS NOT ACHAEA.
189294
Another fine example of why reading the entirety of something and using some comprehension is a plus.
EDIT:
If we wanted falcons, I would have asked for war talons, retrieve, seek, deliver, and the multitude of other abilities my falcon in Achaea has.
Alger2005-09-20 01:47:03
Unite was totally hit as well.
It was my favorite skill so this might be a bit shortsighted...
but..
change to require eq
change to cost eq to the point where we we gain when were just about to unite.
change to cost power.
change to cost 800 willpower.
Isnt that a bit much?
Okay I'm willing to accept that even though this is my mythical skill. Admittedly theres a reason it was my favorite skill as it was very usefull... but then I look at moonbeam which is almost similar but costs no power, willpower, not even equilibrium even though its lower in the skillset.
I cant even unite to other people anymore because of the equilibrium cost to seek which pretty much means my dogs dead before I gain equilibrium. not to mention thats 400 willpower. So for a full seek unite i'm using 1200 willpower.
grrr...
It was my favorite skill so this might be a bit shortsighted...
but..
change to require eq
change to cost eq to the point where we we gain when were just about to unite.
change to cost power.
change to cost 800 willpower.
Isnt that a bit much?
Okay I'm willing to accept that even though this is my mythical skill. Admittedly theres a reason it was my favorite skill as it was very usefull... but then I look at moonbeam which is almost similar but costs no power, willpower, not even equilibrium even though its lower in the skillset.
I cant even unite to other people anymore because of the equilibrium cost to seek which pretty much means my dogs dead before I gain equilibrium. not to mention thats 400 willpower. So for a full seek unite i'm using 1200 willpower.
grrr...
Munsia2005-09-20 01:48:55
I think the change is fair for unite. Considering you would track someone, recall (which shouldnt be able), then end up where the hound was (BUT IT ISNT THERE NOW). The hound is back hiding and you are able to unite to run away by leaving it where you recalled.
Bastion2005-09-20 01:49:00
QUOTE(Goyel @ Sep 19 2005, 06:40 PM)
I skipped a lot of posts.... But from viewing the envoy report, it sounds like you guys are just bitching cause you can't have falcons...
THIS IS NOT ACHAEA.
THIS IS NOT ACHAEA.
189294
Hey, I can do this, too. All I read was "I skipped a lot of posts", and then proceeded to form the opinion that you have no frame of reference and anything you say does not hold any weight with me on this subject.
FUN!
Gregori2005-09-20 01:52:49
Actually I think the Unite change is craptastic too.
Munsia2005-09-20 01:54:58
Not to mention you can start a unite and still have it happen successfully across plane if your summoned or wisp alot or something
Unknown2005-09-20 01:57:13
Unite is only local area.
Athana2005-09-20 01:58:32
Yeah, I'd say that's crappy then.
Munsia2005-09-20 02:00:09
QUOTE(Avaer @ Sep 19 2005, 09:57 PM)
Unite is only local area.
189310
I summoned alger from catacombs to faethorn*. two totally different areas. He united
edit = *
Alger2005-09-20 02:00:55
you can do all that with moonbeam too.
And the seek change alone makes us unable to unite to opponents now.
And the seek change alone makes us unable to unite to opponents now.
Unknown2005-09-20 02:01:07
Hmm, well the Druid version is only local area.
Icarus2005-09-20 02:01:29
QUOTE(munsia @ Sep 20 2005, 09:48 AM)
I think the change is fair for unite. Considering you would track someone, recall (which shouldnt be able), then end up where the hound was (BUT IT ISNT THERE NOW). The hound is back hiding and you are able to unite to run away by leaving it where you recalled.
189300
I think it is fair that Seek, Return etc takes equilibrium, and costing some willpower, but 1200 for a seek/unite? Not to mention the power cost. It's a delayed, local area only ability and pretty much the only useful utility skill in the whole of Tracking. Would you think it is fair if Flow would cost power?
Munsia2005-09-20 02:08:01
QUOTE(Icarus @ Sep 19 2005, 10:01 PM)
I think it is fair that Seek, Return etc takes equilibrium, and costing some willpower, but 1200 for a seek/unite? Not to mention the power cost. It's a delayed, local area only ability and pretty much the only useful utility skill in the whole of Tracking. Would you think it is fair if Flow would cost power?Â
189318
Flow is overpowered. Its been said for ages
Daevos2005-09-20 02:08:35
Yes, yes it is indeed.
Alger2005-09-20 02:09:21
no avaer druid version works like that as well. Those skills dont work on the target they, lock on to the room. The requirements are for initiation not execution.
Munsia2005-09-20 02:10:06
But since we dont have that highway tracking thingy and demesne summon thats why we have it I think
Goyel2005-09-20 02:10:14
QUOTE(Bastion @ Sep 19 2005, 08:49 PM)
Hey, I can do this, too. All I read was "I skipped a lot of posts", and then proceeded to form the opinion that you have no frame of reference and anything you say does not hold any weight with me on this subject.
FUN!
FUN!
189301
I read all but the last two pages.
But since you all are so convinced that I have no idea what I'm talking about, I'll back it up.
QUOTE(Gregori)
1) An ability to train the Strength, Speed, and Constitution of Familiars
 (As per IRE Paladin/Infernal Falcon training)
2) Transmigration changed to same plane only (this may sound like not much
 concerning Prime, but as one advances to higher planes it gets more and
 more dangerous)
3) Instead of the Familiar ceasing to exist upon Transmigration, it would
 "give up" some of its essence to breathe new life into you. Mechanics
 wise 1/3rd(this either being one full stat or a random amount from each)
 of the Trained Power into your Familiar would be lost. Deepbonds would
 still cost the 10 power, and you would still lose the same power as
 normal upon death. Death of the Familiar would also still cause death of
 the Druid if Deepbonded. Essentially after 3 deaths without retraining
 the Familiar would be at its weakest point, and Transmigrating would
 at this point "kill" the Familiar forcing you to Rebirth a new one.
 (As per IRE Paladin/Infernal Falcon training)
2) Transmigration changed to same plane only (this may sound like not much
 concerning Prime, but as one advances to higher planes it gets more and
 more dangerous)
3) Instead of the Familiar ceasing to exist upon Transmigration, it would
 "give up" some of its essence to breathe new life into you. Mechanics
 wise 1/3rd(this either being one full stat or a random amount from each)
 of the Trained Power into your Familiar would be lost. Deepbonds would
 still cost the 10 power, and you would still lose the same power as
 normal upon death. Death of the Familiar would also still cause death of
 the Druid if Deepbonded. Essentially after 3 deaths without retraining
 the Familiar would be at its weakest point, and Transmigrating would
 at this point "kill" the Familiar forcing you to Rebirth a new one.
You are complaining because your upgrades didn't make it in - however, your upgrades ask for 1) To make your familiars into Falconesque ents, and then to 2) chante transmigration to deal with your first upgrade. They didn't change them to falcons, and thus the other upgrade was not made. An downgrade (to most, I don't see how its not an upgrade to those with conglut, but I may be wrong) was the only thing left, and was added. Now you bitch.
True or false?