Wait wait wait.. you don't HONESTLY think that Trackers skill should be helluv expensive simply because Moondancers have a cost-free version.. do you?

Cause, if that's the case, I demand Moondancers be stripped of MANY abilities, simply because other skillsets have similar afflictions. You lose Waning, because Astrology has a lower-leveled aeon. You lose Dark Moon because Contagion. You lose Moonburst because of nature curse. There. We wouldn't want you to be a paper cut-out, now would we?

Please, all I'm asking is that if you're going to respond, don't be silly about it. I did not say "Aw, Moonbeam is better! Gimme!" I'm saying "We already HAD this skill, and it was given a huge cost when a similar, lower skill was not"

It is not "Druids have demesne and Moondancers don't.. GIMMIE!" its more like "All Moondancer Fae now cost 5 power each, while Shadowdancer fae still cost one. WTF!?"

You're arguing my own point quite well, thanks for that.

I'm saying we are meant to be different. It seems you’re saying the same, except when someone else is perceived as being better at one thing.

Moondancers and Shadowdancers are comparable, Moonbeam and Unite are not. Aside from the fact that they do somewhat different things, they are from different archetypes and skillsets.

This is correct. As some envoys know, I have been asking some of them personally about various ideas to have them prove that such-n-such is not over powered or if something else would make sense for a skillset.

Come talk to Ethelon! I can give reasons for the changes I asked for... just added all the details and you guys overlooked them it seems.

We are meant to be different, but one skill should not have an outrageous cost based on it being too good, while a skill that is equally 'too good' has no cost. You cannot justify Unite being given a cost without casting the same light on Moonbeam. To defend it and say "Well, we aren't supposed to be the same!" is like saying "I'm allowed to have overpowered skills so long as you have crap ones!" Just don't be stupid.

Also, they are NOT from different archetypes. A Serenguard can pick Moon or Tracking.

Moondancers have EVERYTHING in Moon. You've got healing, damage resistance, travel, afflictions, rezz, stat-boosts, hindering, and damage of both the melee and ranged variety. Trackers have the ability to move quickly around a battlefield. That advantage just got raped. Don't say "We're supposed to be different" when Trackers just got their whole GOAL nerfed.

Trackers are now out-manuvered by Moon-users.
Trackers are now out-tracked by ANY Totem-user.

Add them together, and Moondancers are better Trackers than Trackers. Scent areas to find a person, moonbeam, attack. This uses LESS power. This uses LESS willpower. This uses NO equilibrium.

What exactly are Trackers supposed to be good at again? Traps? Well, I suppose those would be good if we could move quickly in and out of combat to harass the enemy and get them to go where we want.. oops.. that falls into the manuverability aspect, i'm afraid.

I can when they are different skills with different uses in different skillsets and different archetypes. A Moondancer can not get Unite, for example.

Your anaology does not work at all and you're clearly not understanding me. I am saying Moonbeam and Unite are not as clearly comparable as you would have us think, for the reasons I've already listed. If you want to make a giant illogical leap and think I am overpowered, go ahead, cry away.



My character is a Moondancer, he can't get Unite, so I'm thinking from that perspective. Which is a different archetype.



Thirdeye is better than scenting, and have you ever tried using Moonbeam to attack? The only person you will catch is someone busy doing other things who doesn't move during that 8-12 seconds it takes for the beam to go through.

Unite tracks items and mobs as well as people, moonbeam doesn't. Pretty sure moonbeam has a greater delay on it as well.

You do realize that Unite is not instant.. right? (not directed at Kaervas)

Also, another un-announced nerf, wolves can't SEEK people out of area any longer. Which is retarded beyond belief, because, it can Deliver to anyone on-plane.. and to deliver it has to find them.. but can it find them with Seek? Nope, not any more.

Ugh. I'm getting more and more depressed that I spent money on credits.

And yes, I realized it has other uses, but it is also the Mythical skill. Moonbeam is quite a bit lower than that.

Only Tracker's can Unite items and mobs, and that is seek that does it. Put a power cost on that fine.

Ask a Moondancer to find the nearest animal. I suspect a Tracker will get there first.

Yes, I know that. It can also bring you to an item or mobile, which beam cannot.

Ask the admins if the wolf 'nerf' was intended before you go all World of Warcraft on us.

It doesn't find nearest, it finds the one with the lowest number. This means there could be one in the next room, and it will find the one on the opposite side of the area. I BET the Moondancer can walk a couple rooms before I can Unite.

Also, yes, I MIGHT get there faster.. but is that worth 2 power, 400 mana, and 1200 willpower? Honestly?

If the Moondancer can walk there easily, so can you. Why are you using Unite?

I think your reasoning is flawed. Arguing tracking to items and mobiles should be ignored is not going to convince anyone, and clearly it doesn't. If you want to argue that tracking to people should be counted differently to tracking to items and mobiles, I would accept that.

But what you are saying about it being identical to moonbeam is rubbish. That's like saying sap is the same as waning, so it shouldn't have a power cost.

I didn't say it was identical to Moonbeam, but power does NOT stop the things that were complained about. People complained aboout people being able to jump around between manses when they weren't around. HOW does 2 power stop a thief or raider from doing that? All the power/equilibrium does is hurt the non-griefing aspects. People who want to cause trouble are going to use it power-cost or no.

However, the powercost (and the insane equilibrium) DOES hurt in a legit combat situation. Trackers need traps, however, if you can't get people to walk into them, then its not much use. The unite allowed trackers to bounce around a battlefield and lead their opponents around.

Item/mob seeking is NOT worth power. MIMIC brings mobs too you, for gods sake. (at least, its supposed to).

Mimic can bring me a rabbit or something, OMG!!

Actually, something brought up in another thread - Unite CANNOT bring you to items or mobs.. it brings you to your wolf/hound. SEEK, a 100% different ability, is what takes your wolf/hound to items/mobs.

Ecologists get Unite too, and they do not get seek.

And Mimic can supposedly bring you anything you can see via prints.

Mimic is a decent skill for younger people hunting the forest if it worked.

AnimalGrowth is a novice griefing skill. Can't be used on Familiar, can't be used on Druid mounts. Can only be used on normal animals to give them a slightly stonger attack and health. (read that as it takes one extra hit to kill them)

Empathy is nice in theory, but in practice it is lacking. I would much prefer Seduce be able to be used on animals as well. So you could turn them on enemies that may come into the forest and have them chase them out, but I guess this falls under the Druids have enough passive damage category.

Rebirth could have its uses but for 8 power a pop I really don't feel like populating the Serenwilde with random animals that do nothing much.

Combat wise the main reason to be an ecologist is charms, fetish, smudges, and transmigration.

One doesn't work, one is almost pointless to use now, smudges = , Fetishes = really nice but poisons are so hard to find and I think the selection could be better. Shyness/fear attacks are truly one of the pointless attacks for anybody who has learned how to compose.

Unite would be ok if we could actually have our familiars out without worrying about someone killing them and hurting us seriously in the process, and I don't even mean deepbond. If I am fighting someone and they kill my familiar that is over 1k damage done to me. Likely enough to wipe me out in any fight, in conjunction with other attacks.

How many times do they have to repeat themselves?

You are obviously missing that the whole point everyone who took tracking, took it so that they could move around more easily...

Unite's nerf makes me sad. It should have been given a longer cast time, to give people the chance to kill the wolf before the unite went off, this change is lame, and doesn't address any concern regarding unite. It just nerfs the skill to the point where it won't be used for anything except the things that were a problem in the first place - raiding guildhalls/manses.