Daevos,

My webbing speed as a straight human sucks. Maybe if I got you with an enlarge spell you'd take a bit longer to writhe, but:

* You don't have to writhe, you can always use tipheret/summer;
* stacking web and paralysis doesn't work against someone who is trans discipline, as you'll focus back from paralysis before I get back balance from doing it to you;
* you guys hit for So Much More than some 3k merian is going to be able to sip back in one round /and/ apply health to cure wounds without some very very fast webbing going on;
* when our head armour is all finally stripped, any head attack will decimate a merian or mugwump;
* surged, you can almost certainly tank a non merian/mugwump Aquamancer with sipping.
* there's no penalty for being in an aqua demense for a while. There's a really big penalty for being in a geo demense for a while if poison gas isn't your thing

Come on, lets remove our helms and show the realm how screwed up being a mage will be then.

Yes, the illusion will work on some. Anyone smart will have his or her system ignore it, since a mage can't give you an affliction that would actually require you to sip choleric (why it never works on me).

Geb, I did say that I could have done more earlier. I'm simply used to relying on puella instead of shielding which is my fault but the point isnt if there's anything that could be done or not.

The point was that it's not at all weak as people are claiming it to be. I was recieving the same amount of damage from when you were throwing heat staves even though I had a resistance instead of a drawback and a highfavor which is a 15% damage reduction shield. I really would have expected to be taking less(even if you were doing heat staves), but that wasnt the case.

As for straight damage I think thats Terenas' point. You can stance, switch parry and smoke rebounding all of which you can do without sacrificng your offensive to reduce our effectiveness. While if a warrior wants to stop straight staffing he has to stop offensive and shield/puella/moonwhatever/web or whatnot.

That one comment confirms without a doubt that you have no understanding at all about Cleave. Which is in no way, shape, or form a equivalent to Lunge or Crush. It is more akin to raze and strike combined into one skill, but flawed in that it lacks raze/strikes' versatility, and is incapable of raze/raze/strike/strike because it will rebound off the shield if rebounding is up as well.

When you miss with lunge, it is not stancing affecting it.

It is the natural (and small) chance of any attack a knight makes missing.

As Geb says, a choleric illusion will not even cause the sip on most people. On the rest, it is trivial to code a tracker for re-sipping love when you want it kept up.

Morik, when you get better at fighting, then come and talk to us. You need to be lvl 75 at least.

I have extremly low int, in fact at night narsrim can drain me past half with ents + lash at mugwump speed, guardians and wiccans can also keep me permawebbed if they enlarge me.

Thats my disavanatge against guardians, from my racial and class choice.

Your racial and class choice leaves you vulnerable to knights, thats YOUR disavnantage

What class or race is vulnerable to mages?

I'm level 76. I'm able to hold my own quite well against Celestines and even Amaru from time to time.

I'm learning to fight blademasters again, this time with sane wound healing. I'm getting the hang of stance and parry.

Here's the thing. You have the choice of race, strengths and weaknesses. I'm sure you'd be able to kill as an Aslaran with high int just as much as you can an Orclach.

I don't seem to have that kind of option. Its much like my days as an Achaean mage: as a dwarf, I could tank almost anyone, but I couldn't kill anyone with damage. As a grook, I could kill almost anyone, but if I wasn't careful I'd lose my health quickly.

Murphy, you can kill ents in one combo.

You can also make use of diminish enchantments like anyone else.

if i took aslaran, my disadvanteage would be tankiness, fire and sip penalty.

You said yourself you can hold your own against other classes, but you don't do to well against warriors. well i can easily hold my own against warriors and mages, but guardians mess me up becuase of my disadvantage.

As a wariror, you can't fight a guardian surged, even if you had 15 int, so an aslaran would be vulnerable to narsrim's 20 int moonburst, or cosmicfire (50% fire damage, hurts the penalty)

I personally think guardians are a bit vulnerable to mages, since most mages have high int, and a demesne to back them up, the only worry is a lust tarot.

It's a bit like paper scissors rock with a few imbalances.

Achaean mages were overpowered, don't bring them in here i'll vomit on your shirt

I choose not to kill ents, the said gaurdian/wiccan tends to get upset and run away

so aside from the effects, warriors are good.....late game

Knighthood has to be transed to be effective 1 trans skill
Athletics needs 50% mythical, might as well get puissance-2 trans skills
Transresilience to tank-3 trans skills
fullplate to add to that tankiness-4 trans skills
full discipline to keep up with para-5 trans skills
combat to have stancing against other warriors-6 trans skills

In order to be tanky and deal out good damage, you need a big race, so generally low eq/balance

Warriors kick ass, but are heavily weighted towards late-game strength, and even then its generally balanced.

Geo demesnes are incredibly hindering, and a warrior has to fight or flight quick, cant just sit in them for hours. And warriors dont have potential for a village wide area of passive afflictions. Step out of the room, heal up. We step out, get summoned back in, and still have to deal with the passive stuff even if we get away from a mage.

Sure, we got surge, but thats a serious gamble against guardians, to whom low mana is their best friend, and to mages, who can stack the afflictions

Give us a rebounding or chance to dodge magic attacks, and we'll see how it goes

How are guardians vulnerable to mages?

oh, and I know you dont need all those things transed, but a lot of you were saying "any one with trans.....blah" so I put it in perspective. yes, to deal with a mage in the ways your arguing, all those skills do help. Warriors are the most expensive class credits wise

Mages are tricky to pick, but a mage with runes can embed disloyalty, supersling it with paralyse so they can't use charismaticsmile, plus they have a demense that fires pasively, and they can move rooms to staff,

A mage runist can be quite effective against a guardian

Diamante, we need all the same things - more so, because we're less tanky, so you can afford to miss resilience and combat more - but we need the third guild skill too. Warriors are really cheaper, actually.

No, you can't surge when you fight guardians. But you still have 16-17 constitution to go with your 17+ strength. A merian would have 10.

Three guildskills have to be transed to deal with combat in any class.
Trans resilience to deal with knights - 4 trans skills
Trans tailoring to add to tankiness in dealing with knights - 5 trans skills
Full discipline to keep up with para - 6 trans skills
Combat to have stancing against warriors and a hope of surviving - 7 trans skills

All classes are the same. That's not a weakness of knights. The weakness is in low-level knighthood dealing less damage with more chance of missing than high-level knighthood, but at the highest levels it becomes insane enough to balance out the disadvantage.


In order to be a good mage or guardian, you need a high int race which means low con.


That's rubbish. Knights aren't the only ones who deal with magic attacks. Everyone does. The balancing fact for rebounding and dodging is the high damage and wounds of successful hits.

Again, I don't think knights need any nerfing. They are fine. This complaining just really doesn't seem justified to me.

Hell no. I got bored with staff staff staff stormhammer PWN. Heck, I almost thought about going the Tuerney route and buying +3 int to go with my level 2 collar just to own pretty much anyone .. but really, I fight because its interesting to find ways to beat people, not because I want to win every time.

And I doubt I'd win against a Celestine now that my damage has changed. I still have trouble beating them at 16 int. Tanking, no sweat. Curing, no sweat. But killing? I just don't have the grunt.

The main point of this rant is that we now have no way to kill a surged knight, not that we hate knights in general. Beforehand, we may have had a chance with enough messing about, but I fear that my 14 int staffcast, 16 with blessing will not be enough to kill /anyone/ who has the right resistances.

My gripe isn't a warrior gripe. Its a general "how the hell do I kill someone now?" gripe.