I'm fairly sure you can't use the new animal tracking things to get into a stockroom... and eye sigils would stop ghosts or dreambodies (well, doors would stop dreambodies).

Weird.

On topic, at the moment WARES 2 searches for any item with an id number containing 2, so it wouldn't be losing anything in the transition, and you could always use WARES TWO, WARES THREE, etc.

It just seems such an easy thing to put in place (although feel free to tell me it's horribly complex). If a counter can select the first 200 items of an ordered list, it should be able to select 201 without too much lag, and then select the next 200 just as easily.

Whats wrong with a simple 'more' command for shops?

Because MORE would be difficult to implement, I think.

Like, if the current WARES output is split over two pages, you use MORE to see the next bit. If MORE instead has to know when its not just pagination, but the next 200 items, it gets more complicated. It would also need to know whether you have already looked at WARES and how recently.

Hmm, yeah forgot how more is already used for showing the current wares. I'll blame that oversight on it being morning.

What's wrong with MORE?

They already got rid of MORE for the shops, silly.

Which is why it limits itself to displaying for sale the first 200 items on the shop floor.

They limited it to displaying 200 items because looping through more than that actually causes noticeable lag in the game. The bins are a problem for the execution speed of the code, though I'm not sure why.

You can still do MORE on a WARES display, as far as I can tell.

I still contend that you're all just trying to sell too much junk and need to be more discerning in your wares.

I mean the MORE doesn't work past those 200 items. Anything else has to be displayed by WARES

This isn't Achaea.

Overstocking.

I know this isn't Achaea. My main point wasn't exactly that shopkeepers in Lusternia have many more benefits for cheap or free than in the other realms.

Now, if you ignore that part, you could take into consideration that Lusternia has ALL shops setup this way and it's just overloading the database/code because of the increased number of bins and items to track. If it were a purchased license and/or if the number of items was limited, as in Achaea, the burden on the servers from this bit of code would be alleviated.

I know you all are going to throw stuff at me for this but I actually liked the whole license thing better

I'd like to have two or three of every kind of weapon/armour that I can make, and that's getting up to about 200 kinds.

I know we'd all LIKE to be able to sell 5 of every one of 200+ patterns in our shops, but to me that's just not sensible. As someone who shops, I'd rather see one person selling 50 of those patterns and the next one selling a different 50 patterns (with some overlap for really popular designs). I'm sure that some of the designs are very popular and will sell quite well. Not everyone wants to buy clubs, halberds, and chainmail, though.

In Achaea (sorry for repeating myself so much and for comparing two disjunct games), tailors have only their own patterns and they have to keep the actual, physical pattern safe in a stock room or they lose their investment and have to submit new designs. And this is on top of being limited to 250 items in a stock room, so they're severely limited. Be thankful you have it so good in Lusternia!!

Remember that the Achaea trade system is very different to the Lusternian one.

Unlike in Achaea, it costs at least 1,005,000 gold to have a unique design to sell, and because of that hefty price you are likely to share the cost of designs with other traders. So there are few 'unique' items that most people can obtain for sale.

This means that for the great majority of cases, shops cannot appeal based on a niche market, instead they must appeal to comprehensiveness. Unfortunately, with everyone having tradeskills of some description and most trades being readily represented by large numbers of active merchants, most shops are substandard in this manner if you're looking to browse. Yet they represent a significant investment of time and money.

There are exceptions, Ialie's is one I can think of that is comprehensive, mostly because it is almost exclusively jewelry.

Mine's usually exclusively tailoring, especially now that I'll probably end up running the Blacktalon shop again.

I sell only two of each design at a time, and only of patterns I like. So somewhere between 100 to 150 of the 240+ designs available.

Keep in mind that people buy more than just greatrobes and cloaks, please. People do wear underwear/lingerie, dresses, pants, shirts, packs, cloaks/coats, shoes/sandals/boots. If you want to cater to everyone (as I believe my shop is the only one that does) you NEED a lot of space. Even for just the one tradeskill.

Where do you get a figure like 1,005,000 gold for a design? Are you including the cost of a cartel in there, maybe?

Your design never decays, as far as I know, so it's almost like an artifact, except that you share it with others of your same trade skill.

You can sell full ensembles without selling more than 250 items, so it's still just a case of "I want to sell 500+ items because I want to." I still say the problem is that you want to sell EVERY DESIGN accessible to you, and that's just a bit overreaching when you have hundreds of unique designs to choose from.

And can anyone tell me why it's so difficult to find alchemy for sale in shops in the Serenwilde? Even ones owned by alchemists?

It's not that shops can't appeal based on a niche market. Most simply refuse to even try. Or if they do, they expect instant results. Niche marketing lends itself more to getting repeat business -- dedicated customers -- than to making an initial splash.

I get a lot of business based solely on the fact the people know exactly what they can find waiting for them at Cat's Paw (classy women's clothes). It's not a very narrow niche, but a niche nonetheless.

People repeatedly urge me to expand into men's clothes, and I just say, "No. Cat's Paw sells women's clothes. Period."

It works, and even though a big chunk of my stock is designer originals, much more of my profit comes from public designs.

Well, now that I have a trade skill with no designs able to be sold in shops, that isn't so much an issue. I really don't have a terrible issue with overstocking, I'm only hovering about the limit.

For now, just the line that says there is more would be nice. Maybe later when the admins have less urgent things to attend to the additional command could be added.

Shops -are- expensive, and if I want to use it as a family store across multiple tradeskills, things do add up quickly. I can't see much justification not to allow this for the investment.

Can I bribe one of the Divine to code up something quick and dirty?



Edit: Another example, let's take herbs.

Say I want to have my store focused on providing the complete range of herbs (providing I can do enough to stock that). I don't want one eager customer to destroy all my stock in one go, so I'm going to provide a minimum of say 10 herbs of each type. I might sell them singly if I wanted to appeal to novices, or in groups of 10 or 100 to appeal to higher-level customers.

Ok, so thats ten items of each herb type. But there are 25 different types of herbs. That means 250 items, so 5 different types of herbs will not show up. Now, that says nothing about also stocking tints, runes or even another tradeskill or two.

I think shops are expensive enough to justify allowing them to be used fully.

Yeah, I'm presently running my guild shop, and I stock five groups of 10 of all types of herbs we have, as well as two groups of 50 of some. I stock two groups each of five tints (so that's 12 items), two each of the six totem runes (another twelve items), several runebags (13 presently for sale, I believe), and as 5 each of as many potions as Minnik can refill. (Presently, that's about 40 vials or so).

No offence, but sometime's it's just not viable to be stocking only one trade, such as in the instance of a shop for an organisation.

Ingrates.