I think he means he wants the speciality skills to be good, not that he wants to get better at learning how to fight. But I agree with you (mostly because I suck at combat), learning how to use your skills effectively is more important the how good the skills are.

when i said i want to be good at combat i did not mean i want my specialty to make me good. I consider myself of reasonable fighting ability, and while i am not the best, i can hold my own, i would just like to have better skills

Side comment - do you know how utterly confusing it is to have someone answer another person's post immediately when they have the same avatar?

It's making me all dizzy.

I was about to respond to Navaryn there actually, because I couldn't work out why he'd posted twice as if he was replying to himself.

This has never happened to me... I swear... I've never gotten confused when Xavius and Tenebrae post one right after the other...

Well, back on topic: I've seen the skill list and the stuff all looks the same as a blademaster...except with only one (slow, I gather) blade, no riposte, and no impaling either. Mmmm. But I'm still going pureblade, a terribly underpowered skill like that will be fixed in a short time (fingers crossed). Having only one blade means having to buy only one artifact rune .

A couple things -

Pureblade also incorporatess a couple bonecrusher things, as well as Decapitate, an insta-kill.
Katanas, a Pureblade weapon, are just as fast as rapiers
It isn't 'terribly underpowered', just a bit skewed. It would only take a tiny change to bump it right up.
Artifact runes have only half the effectiveness on a two-handed weapon, but said weapons have double the slots.

It's cheaper to buy one rune and have a nice non-decay weapon then it is to buy two. Then you can upgrade whenever you want.

I see you haven't got a clue what you're talking about. Is it that hard recognizing which subjects you're completely unknowledgable of, and then.. not comment on it?

Thorgal, it was you and Daevos and crew that were the ones saying that it wouldn't take much to fix when you were doing all your big analysis stuff. I recall you guys saying that even 100% poison affliction would really help even things up, and that it was mainly just the fact that two-handers can only deal one affliction per round with their weapons, which isn't something that requires a HUGE change to fix, cause, if it was, people like Icarus wouldn't still kill people, now would they?

Quit your bitching, Thorgal. Two-handers are not 'horribly underpowered', they're weaker, yes, but don't play the role of a victim whose suffering some horrible crime.

The two-hander skillsets ARE "skewed", because they run off the same premise as one-handers, which doesn't work quite as well as they envisioned.

So, don't say I don't know what i'm talking about, without first asking what i'm actually saying.

Hey Jairdan I have one question. How do you know?

BTW Icarus has a fully runed axe and has passive effects going for him now, and isn't pureblade so its slightly out of the range of this discussion.

What do you mean people like me? I resent that. I don't kill people and I am a non-violent person...
As for Pureblades AND Axelords, they are underpowered, if not horribly underpowered. Changing it to 100% poison affliction is what I would consider a HUGE upgrade, but also a fair one.

Please get a clue, then we'll talk.

If you're a pureblade, and you can bash much faster and better using broadswords or rapiers, than the weapons you actually trained for, there's a problem, no? And pureblade combat is just plain rediculous.

Example: With a 110 dmg katana it took me 10 hits to kill a merian bravo.. with my 410 dmg claymore it took me 9 hits to kill the same merian bravo. Because of these whacko formulae, there is no reason to ever use zweihanders to bash.

And pureblade PvP is on the level as the unedited blademaster at the start of Lusternia, but without pinleg or impale.. i.e. useless.

Personally, I think you should have to use skills outside of Knighthood to kill, just like every other class - none of them kill with SOLELY their main skillset, but somehow you expect warriors to be able to? I think its your own fault if you've got a problem with the skillset.

Guardians are considered the most "balanced" class, and yet, guess what, they have to use ALL of their skills to kill effectively.. what does a Knight have to do? Use Blademaster/Bonecrusher/Axelord/Pureblade.. nothing else... hm.. maybe the skills *gasp* aren't horribly underpowered.. maybe you just need to use the other abilities at your disposal? (note that i'm not saying that Pureblade and Axelord are not weak, i'm saying they don't suck as hard as a certain Pureblader's mother.)

EDIT: Watch the personal attacks. ~Shiri~

Usually we do use stuff from other skillsets to help kill, ever hear of athletics? It is mostly filled with defenses, not stuff to actively help kill. As for our commune/city skillset, it barely has anything usefull for warriors outside of something like darkmoon/ancestralcurse/contagion. Sacraments is a bit more usefull for stuff like that with inquisition. Take away a warriors main skillset and we are screwed. Take away a guardian or mages and they can still do SOMETHING like usefull afflictions.

There is no need to become abusive. And you said it yourself, Pureblade and Axelord *ARE* weak. What is so wrong with requesting upgrades to two weak skillsets that you have to insult their mother?

I'm thinking along a few lines; Thorgal said that that the pureblade (and axelord for that matter) are like unedited versions of the blademaster during Lusternia's beta-testing time. It would probably be safe to assume that these two new classes are being...errr... "beta-tested", and that if the classes really are that blatantly underpowered compared to some there will be massive changes made be it in skills or weapon stats. But one of my questions is when these skill-sets were introduced, because then we may have a fairly good idea of when these changes will happen.

P.S. Thorgal, still getting around to sending those credits.

I see you still haven't gotten a clue, why are you talking in this thread? Have you ever even been a knight? You've never showed any insight before about knights, what makes you think your opinion is of any value in this matter?

Let's just move on shall we..

Daevos can hit me for around 50% of my max health in a single attack. That is not grossly underpowered.

Pureblades and Axelords could use some upgrades. That's a given; however, I despise threads like these that try to hammer into the idea that the class is _so_ underpowered, it should receive *excessive* upgrades when such is not necessary to balance the class.

Over time, we find people who had absolutely no clue lead to believe that X class is over powered because people keep saying it on forums. As time passes, these people feel the need to post on forums after everyone else, "OMG, how you can you not see that X is over powered?" This continues to point to where there is this deluded movement for X to be upgraded more than it should be.

We then enter a stage where everyone begins to complain about X being over powered and the same process repeats. I hate forums somtimes.

I don't hate the forums most days, I just mainly hate the sheep who come on bleating their uninformed opinions about subjects they never even bothered to research (where research is available that is - its why I don't mind as much the Demigod hating, as its a bit hard to form a valid opinion on a subject when nobody who knows what the skills entail will share what the skills actually do).

That being said, I am really hating Jairdan right now, because he makes it seem like he has absolutely no clue on the specifics of anything outside of his own guilds skills, but will just pick up and spout anything someone else has said on the topic that sounds interesting.

Warriors only active skills worth using in a proper fight are in the Knighthood specialisations. Athletics is only good for pure passive effects - to help keep us alive longer or to make us move around better. Our secondary skillsets that we share with our counterpart city archetypes are full of skills that are in the main, completely useless for us in a fight. In the early days, Necromancy had the best of these skills, where putrefaction, omen, contagion, ectoplasm, ghost and lichdom were useful, whereas if you look at things in this day and age, that list of useful skills drops down to ghost, lichdom, and occasionally ectoplasm (and if in a trample team crucify/sacrifice). Our other skills have become useless due to nerfings (putrefaction is the main culprit here, followed closely by lichdom), or people learning basic curing (see contagion). As it is very rare for new skills to be added to a skillset, the only hope for our subsidary skills to be made useful, is if we work out a feasible balanced change to our skills, convince our envoys to add that to the list and then hope the Admin choose to implement those skillchoices. But even this is very unlikely, as what would be useful for the warrior archetype, may turn out to be unbelievably broken for the other archetype sharing our skills or vice-versa.

To get back on topic, two-hander bashing at the moment is extremely out of sync compared to its one-hander counterparts, from low to high levels of knighthood bashing, and don't even get me started on the actual PvP aspect, because unless the two-hander has one of those extra-long names which screw with peoples curing systems, the two-hander has very little chance of killing anyone with even Ethelon's system. I won't make suggestions to how to fix the skillset as I only briefly looked at it, but Thorgal and Daevos will probably be able to hammer out the details in fairly short order as they are the main two behind getting the one-hander specialisations not to suck.